Public opinion - Landowners

Discussion in 'Hunting Forum' started by John_Deer, Dec 22, 2012.

  1. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    Many landowners in this area are willing to let anyone with enough sense to shut the gate hunt on their property. But getting permission to hunt with a centerfire rifle is difficult. This is a left over from the days when we could hunt with dogs. When we hunted with dogs everyone used a shotgun loaded with buckshot. A rifle was only to be used on power lines and plowed fields with no houses in the area.

    Today game laws have changed but landowner attitudes have remained the same. They will only give permission to hunt with a shotgun on their land. Landowner feelings are so wide spread we have a county ordinance requiring written permission to hunt with a centerfire rifle on any private land.

    Many landowners believe that a centerfire bullet will ricochet and go on for miles. I have tried to explain to landowners that a centerfire bullet is deformed once it strikes a solid object. Once the bullet is deformed it won't go very far. They just point to the warning on the box of ammo and don't want to hear anymore.

    Has anyone had any luck convincing landowners that a rifle is safe? It has no magic power to ricochet off a tree to strike someone miles away. I could kill many more coyotes with a 5.56x45 than a 22. I told one land owner that I was just wounding or crippling coyotes with a 22. He replied he didn't care if the coyote died right there or a week later. Just make sure the coyote doesn't get a chance to reproduce.
     
  2. hardluk1

    hardluk1 Active Member

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    Your right but there are so many fools running around with centerfire rifles too it hard to change long term feelings. Maybe you can stay with a rimfire but use a 17hmr or the .22mag with the v-max bullet. . Extends your range buy close to a 100 yards. Also winchester is supose to be comeing out with a new super dupper 2600 feet rimfire at the first of the year.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2012

  3. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    I am waiting to see what comes out at the first of the year. Where I have the most luck with coyotes the landowner has a new Marlin 22 wmr. I have been using it for my hunts. If the new Winchester is widely available right off the bat I might buy one. If it's a $1000 gun and $10 for 20 cartridges I don't see one in the future.
     
  4. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Savage makes a bolt action 20 gauge shotgun with rifled barrel that is very accurate out to 100 yards using sabot slugs. Other than that a 22 mag possibly with 50 grain bullets for a little more thump.
     
  5. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    Story Time!!! The shooter in the story went to school with my boss's son. The shootee in the story was my coworker's cousin. Small freaking world...
    About 15 miles from where I grew up, back in 2009, there was a young man hunting from a ground blind with a centerfire rifle, a .30-06. He fired at a deer, and made a clean MISS!

    A little over 3 miles away, my coworker's cousin is cruising down the road, chatting on his cell phone, and minding his own business...
    When a round came in through his back window, shattered his cell phone, leaving bits and pieces of plastic in his face, and went through his instrument panel in the dash board. It left his thumb hanging by a scrap of skin in the process.

    The round was never recovered for ballistic testing. All accounts point to the bullet fired and the bullet received being the same one. It's possible that there is way more to this story, but no one knows for sure. As far as anyone can tell, it was the only shot fired in the area at that same time. Extremely rural area, and both events happening within seconds as far as anyone can tell, and the impact being almost directly in line with the direction the shot was fired...


    Point is, freak accidents do happen. But generally, hunting with a centerfire is safe as you claim. The chances of something like this happening are about the same as getting struck by lightning. And really, he was taking a risk by talking on the cell while driving anyway...
     
  6. hardluk1

    hardluk1 Active Member

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    Sounds more like BS. Unless that deer was on top of a ridge and he missed high it ain't that round. Ballisticaly no way 3 miles out.
     
  7. primer1

    primer1 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I remember reading an article about richochets. The US army did field tests and came to the conclusion that a 12 guage slug will richochet farther than a 30-06. No links, and I believe I have copies of the article at work.
     
  8. Coyotenator

    Coyotenator New Member

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    Many landowners aren't worried about ricochets, they are worried about idiots that can't tell a deer or elk from livestock.They also aren't crazy about hunters that shoot up farm equipment,irrigation pipes, wheel lines and pump houses through stupidity or carelessness.Losing livestock off property because some moron didn't get a gate closed properly is another reason that hunters have been excluded from many properties.I have seen all of these things happen.
    Only those very few hunters proven to be responsible are allowed to hunt on the ranch now,and I keep a close eye on them.
     
  9. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    Call it BS if you want. The two people involved have a hard time believing it too.

    Here are the facts.
    Guy shot at a deer.
    Another guy diving along the road at the same time, and inline with the direction the shot was fired, was hit.

    No other hunters were known to be in the area, no other shots were known to be fired in the area.
     
  10. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I was on a dirt road walking back to my truck when a farmer stopped and gave me permission to hunt his land because I had my rifle slung unloaded with the bolt open. He figured if I was safe enough to do that I was safe enough to hunt his land. It was an older well used rifle with a receiver sight and maybe he figured I would not be taking any long shots. I got the feeling he did not think much of the "dudes" as he put it with their fancy rifles.
     
  11. hardluk1

    hardluk1 Active Member

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    trip286 This was 2 guys 3 miles apart . NO bullet ether . Have you even checked the ballistics of the run of the mill hunting ammo at a 1000 yards. A 175gr smk match bullet has 363" of drop thats 28 feet of drop at 1000 yards and 1300fps left.

    Heres a page to make up your own mind. Note these are low drag rounds compaired to hunting ammo. A 30-06 with a 150 gr bullet will only max out at just short of 2 miles reguardless if angle in a perfect clear day. 174gr will travel 4420 yards but but comes back to eather at a 71* angle at 4400 yards as it comes back to ground level. Note that a 30-06 with a 180gr btsp has a theoritical max range of 3.12 miles but thats in a vacume, not in the air. There was another shooter than was not seen or someone lied. http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/May01.htm
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2012
  12. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    I shared what is KNOWN. What is known is that one guy shot a rifle, and another guy was hit.

    It's believed by several people they were the same bullet. The guy who was hit thinks there's no chance. The guy who fired a round is incredulous, but believes it could have only been his.

    I think there's a one in a billion chance. Maybe a trillion.

    The ballistics don't lie. In a perfect world, it never could happen. In our imperfect world, have stranger things not been known to happen?

    The locals know that on that particular morning, that particular hunter fired a shot, missed, and texted his girlfriend to let her know he'd be in early, as he'd likely just scared all the game off from the area until evening. Mere minutes after that text was sent, a passerby found the victim and called his mom for him to inform her they were going to the hospital. The victim said it had "just now happened" when the old guy found him.

    That's what is known for sure. I could be mistaken on the round and even the range, but the range is as per the official story from those involved. Tall tale? Maybe. I do know the guy was hit by something that demolished his back window, phone, his dash, and his thumb. I've seen the damage. I've also seen damage caused by stray rounds, and it looked consistent to me.

    Call it what you want. I call it a freak occurrence, regardless of whether the round came from the same rifle.

    Heck, for all I know, it could have been a murder attempt from a couple hundred yards...
     
  13. Bootsdeal

    Bootsdeal New Member

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    The key word is "landowner." It's his business and his decision. I have family that are ranchers in southwest Texas, who's land is full of deer. They won't allow anyone to hunt on their land period, even knowing they could earn a nice chunk of change on deer leases. It's their business and their right.
     
  14. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    people are wounded pretty frequently from errant rifle shots during deer season. personally i dont hunt during gun season in wisconsin because centerfire rifles give morons more "confidence" in making longer shots and shoot at the slightest leaf twitch.

    bullets that hit deer square arent dangerous. bullets that miss frequently dont do any damage. bullets that ricochet typically dont do any damage to anyone. as a property owner i totally understand not letting folks on land with a centerfire.

    i wouldnt let a stranger hunt my land with a freekin slingshot much less a rifle in today's lawsuit happy world. i think the majority of landowners are more concerned with being sued from someone being stupid with a long range rifle than any concerns over ricochets. shotguns even with slugs just dont have any real range.

    my suggestion is dont be a dick about having to use a shotgun if you got a place to hunt. be responsible with your hunt dont leave trash and waste around and share your deer with the landowner and once you prove yourself, that person's opinion may change. going on a crusade is not going to win your argument :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2012
  15. tri70

    tri70 New Member

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    The shotgun option is not all that bad, the public land we have here locally is bow only for most with drawing for muzzle loader/shotgun. I hope it goes back to open rifle soon.
     
  16. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This^^ is the only reason I can hunt where I do. The landowners and I go to the same range, and we both know that the pther person is safe. I am working on some new land, and the deal is we can do supervised small game hunting for now, the landowner will re-evaluate us next season and see if big game privliges have been earned yet. In the meantime, we will be helping with farm chores, and using his range with him to prove our worthiness.

    QFT. 'nuff said.

    The last paragraph says it all. With most of the hunting land on the east coast being privately held, don't b!tch about not being able to use a rifle. Be thankfull that you have a place to hunt. 2 years ago, my uncle sold the land my family has hunted on for 3 generations. As a result of of this sale, we lost the hunting land due to the fact that his kids play in the woods. The only thing that pizzed me off about this was that he waited until opening day of bow season to tell us. A phone call a little earlier would have been nice ro say the least. Not a priblem now, we have 4 farms that we can hunt on instead, but it still chaps my azz that he did that. As others have said, his land, his choice.
     
  17. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    The shotgun is great for deer and small game. Coyote hunting has so many techniques. The most prolofic method is to drive a truck or 4 wheeler around an area where coyotes are seen at the same time everyday, You need a rifle for this type of hunting. You see the entire pack most of the time. So a repeating rifle is handy.

    When I call coyotes a shotgun is great. The coyotes usually get real close before I see them. Live rabbits that will squeal when you pick them up are the best call. Coyotes get wise to manual calls and digital calls.

    Coyotes in this area are under constant pressure. Since coyotes are not considered a game animal you can use any reasonable method to hunt them. Finding a pack in the same area long enough to plan a calling hunt is a race event.
     
  18. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Folks get hit by stray bullets all too often. A few years ago in rural Bray, OK some kids were attending football practice when a kid was hit by a .30 caliber bullet. That bullet was fired from a two groove 1903 Springfield rifle. The guy who fired the shot was never found.

    http://www.news9.com/global/story.asp?s=9229653

    http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20081106_12_BRAY322537

    An Amish girl was killed by a muzzleloader bullet as she rode down the road in her buggy. The bullet was fired from 1.5 miles away:

    http://content.usatoday.com/communi...2/amish-teens-death-ruled-a-homcide-in-ohio/1

    This lady was hit by a .50 BMG bullet as she sat in her vehicle. The bullet came from a shooting range over two miles away:

    http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?57053-Woman-hit-by-stray-bullet-at-Texas-Motor-Speedway
     
  19. dsstrpc_88

    dsstrpc_88 New Member

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    Here in new Hampshire a couple years ago a 17 year old boy was shot from 40 yards away with a muzzleloader. He died obviously, kid wasn't wearing any orange, guy that shot him is in prison I believe. Apparently he wasn't taught to properly identify his target