Pros & Cons of press checks

Discussion in 'General Handgun Discussion' started by PANDEMIC, May 22, 2019.

  1. film495

    film495 Active Member

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    I'd think any time you load or unload the gun, you would want to do a press check. Unless, I'm misunderstanding what a press check is. Aren't there several circumstances where you really do want to check the chamber?

    Incidentally, for non military or police people - I'm not a fan of one in the chamber. I get it - it's faster, but for people with less training and less responsibility, it is just room for error that I don't think regular folk benefit from. I don't carry - but, I did - it would probably be a revolver, with an empty chamber or a snap cap instead of having one sitting there in front of the hammer. Yea, it can't fire but whatever - it really can't fire if I fall on it, and there isn't a bullet sitting in there. You don't walk around with it cocked in your pocket, so - the one aligned with the camber would be the sixth shot. If I ever thought I needed six shots I would have run away long before it came to that … lol
     
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  2. Wambli

    Wambli Well-Known Member

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    I can ALMOST understand why some folks would feel that way, and carrying a gun with an empty chamber at least gives you SOME chance pf prevailing and it's better than screaming like the kid from Home alone. BUT, I do believe there is a substantial benefit and it seems to me like it's past the point of sensibility.

    A loaded chamber in SOME guns was an issue a loooooooooooooong time ago, but today you have to try real hard to shoot yourself with your own gun. If that was not the case you'd never get me to appendix carry which I do all he time without giving it a second thought.

    Just an argument from the other side of the fence and not intended to change your mind.
     
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  3. film495

    film495 Active Member

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    The other day I was reading about the Miami Dade police event - and stumbled onto the 70s California highway patrol incident, kind of interesting history. What I understand about both of those events, is they have been used to change the way police approach or train for certain types of policing or events. For example the California one, basically - the officer fired 6 .38 special rounds, and when trying to reload the guy just ran up and shot him point blank - that is over simplified, but basically spells out pretty clearly why 6 shot revolvers chambered in .38 special were not the best service handgun going forward. Was there an event that took place, where - it was determined better to have one in the chamber? I'm not trying to be a snot about it - it probably is completely safe as log as the safety is actually on, and people are trained. I just don't know the history behind it if there was a turning point or if it was always done that way since semi auto became common place.
     
  4. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    495, again, you are over-thinking things, and making them way more complicated than they are. Maybe study up on how pistols are made and designed. And here's a news flash for ya. Guns carried that are not chambered with a round, are very expensive paperweights! Guns are not designed to fire if they are dropped either.

    And if you don't carry, what difference does it matter to you anyways? I guess if you feel so unsafe about carrying rounds in a pistol, you could always do like Barney Fife and carry just one bullet in your pocket, then load it into the gun when you sensed danger and needed a gun. Right?

    Seriously though, with all the questions and the senseless scenarios you brew up in your mind, I really think you need to get rid of your guns. Because you are as close as irrational about some issues about guns as the anti-gun liberals that come up with some of the nonsense they do. Personally, I don't think you are mature enough to have any guns. Simply an observation based upon your posts and questions.
     
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  5. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    I can give you an example of an incident where a round in the chamber was better than an empty chamber.

    Three years ago a friend of mine was in Houston, Texas, and had to stay in a hotel. He was leaving to go get supper, and walk8ng through the parking lot to his truck. A guy body slammed into him from behind a parked car, and took him to the ground. The attacker began hitting him, then leaning forward toward his face.

    My friend was carrying a commander sized 1911 and started to draw it. Attacker and he grip the pistol as it clears the holster. Buddy cannot get his safety disengaged, let alone rack a round into the chamber, if their weren’t already one in the pipe. He finally get the safety disengaged and sends a round into the attackers hip. The attacker had been chewing on his left cheek, while they were grappling over the gun. Buddy was able to get the attacker off of him after the round to the hip. The attacker ran down the street.

    The police caught up with the attacker over a half a mile away. They both ended up 8n the same ER. My buddy got his cheek taken care of and the attacker got treated for the gunshot wound.

    Don’t know how it may have gone if he had to try to fight the guy off with one hand and chamber a round with the other.

    I keep one chambered when I carry. I carry a double action auto that has a decocker only. I don’t have a holster with a retention release over my trigger. Each of the above is a conscious decision based on the experiences of others I know who have experienced problems that helped me decide what and how I carry.

    I’ll stand by my opinion (others may vary and that’s fine with me) that the Serpa holster can contribute to a ND with some pistol types if someone is not 100 percent on their game. I will also state, I don’t think it complete hot garbage for use with other pistol type like my chosen carry pistols in DA. But here is an example of the mechanics at issue, that could contribute in less than ideal drawing circumstances in a controlled environment.

     
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  6. film495

    film495 Active Member

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    I'm not making up scenarios - the Miami Dade shooting was an actual event that is important history - as is also the 1970 California Highway Patrol shooting, these things changed the way police carried and used guys forever - I was just curious if there was some event that directly lead to chambering a round as a standard practice. If you think history and use of firearms isn't interesting, why are you on a gun forum trolling me? Maybe someone with actual input would participate if you weren't here flaming everyone. Saw you participate in another thread about dropping membership - you certainly make me want to say goodbye!
     
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  7. freefall

    freefall Well-Known Member

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    I carry a 1911 cocked and locked. My holster has a piece of leather between the hammer and the firing pin. When I draw, I pop the thumb break, pull the pistol, disengage the safety as I bring it to bear, put my finger on the trigger after I come on target and shoot if it's a shoot target.
    If that is too complex for you, I agree with Dallas. Don't carry a gun.
    If you think it's too dangerous, you're right. It's too dangerous. Don't carry a gun.
     
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  8. PaBushMan

    PaBushMan Well-Known Member

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    Never heard of a ''press check'' before. Never done one either. You can see if the slide is closed or not.
     
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  9. schnuffleupagus

    schnuffleupagus Well-Known Member

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    We trained in MOUT and room clearance to check between rooms/bldgs because you may lose count of rounds spent. But, even then is more of a "pull check" accidentally putting a round through my left hand is unappealing. We never short stroked the slide upin holstering or unholstering the weapon. Maybe John Wick made it cool.
     
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  10. Wambli

    Wambli Well-Known Member

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    Tell you what. I’ll tell you where our opinions share common ground. The Sherpa holster design is ABSOLUTELY not suitable for people that are willing to live with their training and technique shortcomings. If a shooter is one of those then there are better (meaning more forgiving) options out there. Every video I have ever seen trying to illustrate the shortcomings of the design invariable shows me user technique/execution of draw errors.

    Again “Tex” is the poster boy for the ND issues attributed to the design. Tex is an idiot that swept the safety off his 1911 when he gripped it in the holster. This is a HIGHLY unsafe technique that is frequently (to my huge chagrin) actually TAUGHT by some!!!! Then he started tugging on a gun that was still locked and then when he finally freed the gun his finger went straight to the trigger, a mistake that many make and self-perpetuate with thousands of repetitions of piss poor technique. Tex is what caused Tex to shoot himself. Good thing in the follow up video he said his “training took over” and he called his mommy... That moron has probably gotten a lot of people hurt through his stupid videos.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
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  11. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That's the nicest thing you have ever said about one of my posts. And I mean that with all sincerity Mr. Freefall.

    495, I know both of those incidents happened, and you point is? What do they have to do with checking to see if a round is chambered, or with carrying a round in the chamber? Not a thing that I can see, unless you would like to explain further as to why you feel they do. I'm all ears.

    My remarks about scenarios you brew up in your mind had nothing to do with either of those two events in the least. It was referring to you making things over-complicated and more involved than they should be. We can sit around and "what if" all day long, but in the grand scheme of life, it really means nothing at all, and worrying about things out of our control. Your are one of those people in life that worries and obsesses over minutia and details that mean nothing in reality. For the most part, they are figments of your imagination. Drama.

    If you want to say adios, then say it. If you are expecting an apology from me for speaking my mind and offering my opinions, then hold your breath, and wait for it! You'll pass out, or turn blue before I apologize for speaking my mind. Maybe you expected others to offer the answers you were looking for, and because I said what I did, now your feelings are hurt? Seriously, I don't know, and don't care either.

    Maybe you you should join a knitting or crocheting forum, instead of gun forum!
     
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  12. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    I know I posted earlier, and my answer was "It depends.", but...

    On my 1911s (all of them), I carry cocked and locked. I can tell if a round loads by the sound made when the slide moves forward. Do I need to check again? Not me.

    On my ARs, I have the forward assist on some and push that before putting the safety on.

    The Israelis are taught to carry without a round in the chamber (for the most part). On presenting the handgun, they "tap, rack, bang". They do not have time to press check. During competition, rarely do I see a press check. Only when one questions if a round loaded on preparation for a shooting scenario (but that is rare as my sentence #2 insinuates).

    Most press checks I've seen on the range are done by those who display through their actions that the went someone's class and that is what they were taught to do. It also makes for showing that supposedly they know how to handle a handgun.
     
  13. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Don't leave, he can't help it!!!:rolleyes: Just remember, it take all kinds and just consider the source when you are attacked/criticized. ;)
     
  14. Donn

    Donn Well-Known Member

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    Seems we've gone far afield from the original subject of this thread. MHO? Press checks are a bad idea. 1) An experienced shooter should know the condition of his/her weapon at all times. And, 2) The more you handle a loaded weapon, the more risk of a malfunction or negligent discharge. Just random thoughts from a casual observer.
     
  15. Rentacop

    Rentacop Well-Known Member

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    As far as I know, no incident caused a switch to loaded chamber carry . John Browning intended for his designs to be carried with one in the pipe . Jeff Cooper endeared loaded chamber .
    The Israelis use a mix of designs and empty chamber carry allows them standardized technique and training . The U.S. Army made a bad choice in going for the empty chamber .
    The first incident you discussed was the Newhall case in which a cop used hard-kicking .357 Magnum loads but had trained with mild .38 Specials . As I recall, he didn't have speed loaders and was using dump pouches . Contrary to folk tales, he didn't place his empty brass in his pocket .
    Better tactics were adopted , including never approaching the suspects until all suspects are in sight .
    The FBI Miami shootout is the subject of the great FBI training film, " Firefight ", which is in 2 parts on youtube . Paul Herell has a good YouTube video on it as well .
    Mas Ayoob wrote an article for The Ayoob Files in American Handgunner . He was critical of the FBI for failing to equip themselves with rifles and Level 4 body armor and for other decisions but praised their valor . Eddie Mireles, a hero, has since written a book about the shootout .
     
  16. Rentacop

    Rentacop Well-Known Member

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    Did somebody pee in Dallas's Cheerios again ?
     
  17. sheriffjohn

    sheriffjohn Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "Press Check" or not, totally up to the individual. Personal experience from 40 years uniformed and plainclothes with variations on pistols, revolvers, holsters, belts, etc. have taught me that regardless of what variables exist, if something can screw up, it will. Also, there are people who are just plain old clumsy, absent-minded, stupid, and unlucky. Ignorance can be cured, stupid cannot be fixed.

    Personally, I've had many close calls but only a couple AD's. What I mostly found that things get snagged on stuff, bumped on stuff, wear out, don't exactly fit, get wet, unsnap, and don't work out for me. Wrestling a wet drunk out of a bar is not the best time to have your firearm fall to the floor, neither is having a seatbelt snag the butt as you exit the car, etc. etc.

    My only point is this: If you're carrying a weapon, try your best to be sure it won't become more of a problem than an asset. I've learned to "press check" semi-unconsciously over the years but what I'm actually doing is to physically check to be sure everything's where it's supposed to be in the condition I need it to be. We were taught (and I still do this) to protect your pistol with your elbow. You can feel it in the holster without drawing attention and be better prepared to ward off an attempted gun grabber. If the firearm was ok when I put it in the holster, as long as I don't take it out, it's a pretty good bet it's still ok as long as I can feel it with my elbow.

    The worst thing about accidental shootings is that most victims are people we care about - family, friends, and co-workers.
     
  18. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel Active Member

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    Seems like some folks way overthink this.

    Load the gun and holster it. If you're not sure (multiple guns, different storage locations, different status of readiness) then check the chamber. It's not difficult with any gun. Just ensure it's back fully into battery when done.
     
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  19. freefall

    freefall Well-Known Member

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    Arlo Givens: "If you gave a damn, you'd be loading your guns!"
    Raylan Givens: "My guns are ALWAYS loaded."
     
  20. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Well-Known Member

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    First, I'm a firm believer in limiting administrative handling of my guns.

    Second, I don't think a press check is necessary on a Glock. If you look you can see the shell casing at the rear of the chamber.

    [​IMG]
     
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