Police Officers reaction to open carry

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by PrimePorkchop, Aug 21, 2012.

  1. PrimePorkchop

    PrimePorkchop New Member

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    http://www.liveleak.com//view?i=589_1345502474

    Now, I have very mixed emotions on this ... first off, let me say, I think that officer did an awesome job. I respect him tremendously for it...he did his job the way it should be done.

    My conflict comes with THE LAW its self. He's only enforcing the law, he didn't write it.

    To me, the law seems counter to the Constitution. Now, we can have philosophical debates all day long, but you're either for OC or against it...to me, that's irrelevant...what is relevant is that it's a Constitutional Right that some states actually recognize...and yet, we have a law that constrains the exercise of that right.

    Here's what I mean:

    The officer says that it is his training that allows him to recognize the firearm as a fully automatic weapon. Yet...it wasn't full auto, and in fact, if I heard him correctly, it's actually a .22

    Now, I won't argue that semi-auto looks like full auto, obviously there are many cases, literally millions of cases, where this is true, BUT, when dealing with law, we have to deal with facts...no training could teach that officer the difference, in sight alone, between a semi-auto and a full-auto.

    So, with that being said, I don't feel like the law is in sync w/ The Constitution as far as illegal search & seizure.

    Think of it like this:


    You have to have a fishing license to go fishing, right? So let's say you're driving down the road, you get pulled over. You weren't speeding, you didn't have any tail lights out, nothing like that, but someone reported that you were fishing on their property (You weren't, but that's what they told the police)

    The officer says "So, i see you have fishing poles in your back seat...can I see a fishing license" and you say "I don't have to have a fishing license unless i'm fishing, these are just fishing poles"

    But you get searched anyways. That's not a legal search via the Constitution, yet many of our new laws say that it is.

    In other words, the reality of the situation is you were never breaking any laws to begin with, but the officer didn't know that, so the law says he gets to infiltrate your freedom "just to make sure"...


    There are a lot of laws that are not in sync w/ our Constitution and they all exist because certain people were willing to stand down and trade their freedoms for the ILLUSION of security.

    Just ask the people standing in line getting groped at the airports.





    Thoughts?
     
  2. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    In this case, if the officer had a report that you were fishing on another person's land, he has probable cause. It's up to a prosecutor, grand jury or or a judge to make a final determination.

    Game and fish law is a different set of tules altogether.
    \
    SCOTUS decisions, right or wrong, give the officer certain powers under ceertain specific situation.

    Example: if an officer knows that you are a convicted felon, out on parole, and he has reasonable suspicion that you are carrying an illegal weapon, he can search you. Reasonable suspicion is the lowest level of cause.

    Next up is probable cause. Probable cause is needed to obtain a warrant. It can also be used for a warrantless search or arrest under exigent circumstances

    Certain knowledge is the highest standard. If an individual is shooting at the officer, he can return fire without a court order.

    All three, from reasonable suspiucion to certain knowledge must be able to be proven in court.

    The system is far from perfect, but to the best of my knowledge, it's the best that any society has come up with so far. And the system will never be perfect as long as there are humans involved!:(:(
     

  3. PrimePorkchop

    PrimePorkchop New Member

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    I understand that its the law...I am just making the point that the law its self seems counter to the 4th Amendment...maybe im thinking abou tit all wrong, its just the first thing that comes to my mind
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2012
  4. Chandler51

    Chandler51 New Member

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    I really have no problem with what the officer did. I understand the difficulty of identification of a FA firearm. My AR has select fire markings, yet is a semi-auto. Short of a hands on inspection, one would believe it to be select fire. The officer was respectful, and reasonable IMHO.
     
  5. downsouth

    downsouth New Member

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    That officer was a total professional from start to finish. I wish everybody, not only leos but citizens as well had his knowledge and demeanor.
     
  6. DrumJunkie

    DrumJunkie New Member

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    The officer conducted himself 100% appropriately. I think the persons filming in this case where a little disappointed that the officer acted as he did. It goes to show that every LEO out there is not looking to take every ones weapon or curtail ones right to posses it.

    Now if I could just figure out what the guy was talking about at the end concerning a magazine in his but. :eek:
     
  7. jjfuller1

    jjfuller1 New Member

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    comments concerns or questions?? hmmm i betcha a paycheck hes had prior military serivce. lol... i think the cop did exactly what he should of in a very respectful manner.. kudos to the officer.. we need more like him
     
  8. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    Many federal, state and local laws contradict what the constitution allows in a bunch of areas, and the cops are there to enforce those laws however illegal they may be.

    The problem isn't the cops. It's the legislators, politicians and lobbyists who push for ever more regulation.

    IMO, the cop in this video was outstanding and I really can't find fault with the way he behaved in the context of the situation.
     
  9. PrimePorkchop

    PrimePorkchop New Member

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    Agreed completely. I assume my post didn't come off suggesting otherwise ? :)
     
  10. kytowboater

    kytowboater Active Member

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    The LEO was great, the guy recording was a dick.
     
  11. USEBOTHHANDS

    USEBOTHHANDS New Member

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    open carry is open carry, but WHO, I MEAN WHO, carries a full-auto (or look-alike) weapon OC???

    these dudes (carryin the MP) were lookin for a confrontation.......but didn't get what they wanted.

    i have been for the 2A longer than i can remember, but it does not "comparatively" address the weapons of today, to yesteryear. when the 2A was drawn, muskets were being used.......flint or percussion, it was up to the owners of the firearm. it was powder, round-ball with wadding, pack, then flash the pan (or seat percussion cap).

    so, with that in mind, it is with some "reasonable assessment" that the policemen and women of today, have the right (law on their side) to detain an individual, or group, that seem(s) to have "possible" FA weaponry.

    now, granted, a modern, semi-auto pistol can be made full-auto, a "reasonable assessment" of any pistol, be-it semi-auto or revolver, should not be a detainable offense because it is a handgun and rare that modern handguns are FA (save VERY FEW).
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2012
  12. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    i think that officer did act very professional and with a lot of courtesy. i also believe he did have reasonable cause to inspect the firearm, and did inform the man that he was being detained until he verified it was a fully auto firearm without the proper paperwork. when he was satisfied it was a semi auto firearm, he informed the man he was no longer being detained. i also commend him on being supportive of the 2nd admendment. that officer is what LEO should aspire to act like. glad you posted this PPC. good one. what is a shame is, the ones who abuse their authority and make guys like this look bad in the eyes of the citizens.
     
  13. beastmode986

    beastmode986 New Member

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    Those guys were being such *******s . The cop was being nice about it and just wanted to make sure it wasnt full auto. I would have allowed him to do that.
     
  14. USEBOTHHANDS

    USEBOTHHANDS New Member

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    as i stated, if it were some sort of handgun.......i'd have a problem with it, but bein as it was a FA clone, carried OPENLY, the LEO was well within his rights to do exactly what needed to be done. :cool:
     
  15. PrimePorkchop

    PrimePorkchop New Member

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    And for the record, in light of a new thread brought to my attention, I, in no way shape or form was "bashing" on this officer ... In fact within the first sentence I did quite the opposite, I commended him for a job well done.

    Some people can be way too touchy and knee jerky... Sheesh
     
  16. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    the only LEO's who need bashing are those who abuse their authority and try to make their own rules to suit their needs. then they need to be fired and find new employment at their local Jack In The Box! those who can't enforce the law without their own interpretation of it need to find another career field and let those who do their job with courtesy and distinction do the job. they need to bring back the professionalism of the motto, "to protect and serve"
     
  17. RNstanger

    RNstanger New Member

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    Just another copycat who did a lousy job trying to imitate the other fools making the same videos.
     
  18. thdrduck

    thdrduck New Member

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    Seems to me the guy toting the gun was looking for a rise and didn't get it. It must be a young guy thing... I myself prefer to be left alone and not draw attention. Cop handled things perfect.
     
  19. Chandler51

    Chandler51 New Member

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    Obviously, I can't speak for the others, but I didn't take the OP as "cop bashing" on your part, Prime.
     
  20. vincent

    vincent New Member

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    I knew what you meant from the get go...:cool:

    And yes, LEO was professional and courteous IMHO...

    Like UBH said...who the eff carries around a frickin' rifle in public??? I'm all for legal OC, and I get it but...it's not illegal for me to smash my left nut with a ball peen hammer either...doesn't mean I should do it...