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Discussion in 'Training & Safety' started by MrTouchdown, Oct 12, 2007.
Do you ever point unloaded firearms at people accidentally?
My grandfather cured me of that when I was 6 yrs old. Many folks at gun shows should have met my grandfather.
Firearm safety rules
Rule #1- Every gun is always loaded.
I have been known to draw on someone pointing a gun at me. The only way I know to cure stupidity. I take it HARD when anyone points a weapon at me.
There is NO SUCH THING AS AN UNLOADED WEAPON.
Only in the military, with proper training and supervision. I don't recommend doing it under any other condition. The only time you point a firearm at something, is if you want it to die.
NEVER! loaded, unloaded, toy or real it does not matter. Two of my boys will not even point play guns at anyone, And I'm teaching my two year old now. It's never too soon to start on gun safty.(to an extent)
Way to go, tilt!
One of the safety rules is, of course, never point your muzzle at anything you are not willing to destroy.
If you screw up one rule, you might get away with it. But pointing a weapon at someone violates at least two or three - almost guaranteeing a disaster!
I went to a class that had us pointing unloaded guns at each other and dropping the hammers. Talk about an eye opener! The instructor had all ammo out of the area. User, instructor and all other participants checked EVERY weapon several times until EVERYONE was satisfied that ALL guns were unloaded. Each gun had a chamber flag installed so you could see that the gun was unloaded and could not possibly be loaded.
We practiced drawing, aquiring a sight picture and snapping the hammer/striker at each other. I could not do it at first. Years of training had told me to not do such a thing. Shooting a bad guy requires violating this basic tennant. It was an eye opening exercise for me. I felt emothionally drained as a result of the exercise. It was so far off what I had been trained, my mind was exhausted. After a few days of reflection, I realized the message. You may have to violate the basic rules to survive. I know you don't point a gun at anything you do not intend to destroy. No rational, caring person WANTS to take a life. You may be FORCED to take a life. He who hesitates is lost. You may have to react quickly and not REALLY give it alot of conscious thought. If you hesitate for a moment, you may be the one on the Coroners slab. If you react too quickly, you may be the one standing trial for Murder.
IF the training can be done in an absolutely controlled setting, it will tell you alot about your self.
I have taught dozens of others using this method. They all report having similar reactions. It can be a very introspective exercise.
It is one thing to shoot a target, even a color target or 3-D target but another thing entirely to shoot a person. If you are strict in your safety practices, you may hestitate in a real deal.
Please don't think I'm trying to stir the pot, but what kind of handguns allowed the triggers to be pulled, and/or the hammers to fall with a chamber flag in place?
Would the chamber flags you were using allow the gun to come into battery?
I'm wondering the exact same thing.
I used sections of automotive vacuum hose with reflective tape on each end. It would compress enough to allow the weapons to go into battery yert prodtrude from the muzzle and chamber end for easy visible verification. The main drawback was the vacuum hose was a little fragile. Each piece would last about 2-3 classes but, was cheap enough to replace. Others used yellow nylon rope that would run up through the barrel and down through the mag well. On the Glocks there is enough unsupported space at the feed ramp to allow the gun to go into battery. That would not work on the Smith's as they have a magazine disconnector so the trigger cannot engage the hammer w/o the mag in place.
It is a far cry from the old days of pointing your finger and saying bang (yes we really did that 20+ years ago)and more realistic than air soft guns.
I can't pursue this tactfully, so I won't.
This is a shame that ADULTS react this way. I wonder why everyone wants the guns out of our hands when most people do not follow the GOLDEN RULES about firearm safety.
I hate to say, but it's always the unloaded gun that kills. I hear stories all the time what people due, but seeing it is a shame.
When I teach firearm classes I always use the blue training guns, but I am not to say what is right and wrong, it's just my way. I hope that all gun owners will practice the right way and think about how they handle firearms.
Next time you go to the range, stop and watch everyone, you will be surprised what you see... It's a FAR OUT CRY!!!
Watch where the trigger finger is placed and watch what happens when the gun as a malfunction.
I was deer hunting a few years ago. Had a pretty good stand with a well used trail about 50 yds below and to my right. It had a couple of bushes between me and the trail, but whatever came up that trail was going to walk right into a beautiful shooting lane after passing a large tree. I hear something coming(sounded like an unalerted deer)so I put the gun up. Through the bushes I see brown,so off comes the safety(dumb on my part). "deer gets closer and I can see white of the chest,as well as brown,Then the deer steps out from behind the tree. It was a girl dressed in brown pants,and a brown leather jacket,with a white turtleneck sweater underneath!!!Scared the bejeezus out of me! I went up to her and gave her HELL! She was out for a walk and had no idea it was hunting season and really didnt realize that I almost killed her. I made her put an extra orange hat that I had with me,and then I walked her to her car. I was too rattled to hunt anymore that day. Not exectly on the topic,but similiar.
You need to remove your head from your *** and verify your target before even raising your rifle, let alone thumbing the safety and putting your finger on the trigger and taking up slack. Brown and white, does not a deer make.
While I was in the Army stationed at Fort Hood. My unit went on a week long FTX (Field Training Exercise). We were at about day three and a brand new PV2 was I guess having a bad day because for some stupid reason he decided to point his weaon at me at close range with a mag in the weapon finger on trigger and sighting on me. He learned a hard lesson that day. Do not mess with SPC Young. Upon him doing that I reacted with the utmost haste and I hit his weapon out of the way and followed up with a very nice (As I was told by a few people) butt stroke to the head (Slamming the butt of your M-16 to the side of the head causing a almost fatal blow if done hard enough). Now he was lucky because he had is brain bucket on and strapped basic training tight. So that saved him from serious physical damage other than a ringing in his ear and a whopping headache. I was grabbed by out Squad leader and escorted to the Commanders tent where once the PV2 was able to walk they brought him too. He was talking all sorts of stuff like how he was going to have me arrested for assult. That was untill the commander asked what happend and with the aid of witnesses the story was told and verified. He ended up not doing a darn thing to me and told the PV2 that maybe he would think before leveling a weapon on another solider the next time and the commander added that the PV2 would be doing some extra duty to enforce that upon him. From that day on he never gave me any trouble.
I do not take kindly to having a weapon pointed at me and you better make darn sure you are willing to use it OR ELSE. It is this reason I never got in to paint ball. My idea of fun is not getting shot at weather it is a paint ball or a real bullet.
Been in the Army long? We used to use MILES on every field problem.
no way...I never do...good practice not to.
I was in from 1995 till 2003. We never used miles gear unless we were at NTC. My unit was part of the 13 COSCOM we did not warrent such equipment. But we would always get the newest commo gear. We were the test rats to see if it was up to snuff before giving it to 4th id or 1st cav.
MILES gear is stupid and never worked. I got a hold of a god key so I never died anyways. and if we did die they would come and reset us anyways.
I did once change my HMMWV from that to a M1 tank on the miles gear. HEHEHEHEHE. I never got killed.
Ahh, COSCOM, gotcha'. I've been on live fire ranges, where my team mates were sending lead around me on both sides. I've set off Bangalore Torpedos from a few feet away from the wire. I've called arty and aircraft 'danger close'. It doesn't bother me to have guns, loaded or not, pointed at me, as long as I know that the operator knows what they're doing.
I'd imagine it would be quite a bit different for people who haven't trained to function in those conditions.