Piston conversion vs accuracy????

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by Nathantc, Oct 22, 2011.

  1. Nathantc

    Nathantc New Member

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    I very much so like the idea of keeping things cleaner longer, I only wonder if this will hurt accuracy at all.

    I am going to do this to my 16" set up, but IM thinking of doing it to my 24" set up as well. It would be nice for it to stay almost spotless after a few mags.

    Does any one here have a piston AR-15 personally. Not just some one who knows a guy LOL or read some thing some where. IM looking for some one with real hands on experience that has went threw 100s of rounds not just a mag or two.

    I have seen one on a full auto lower and it ran good, but do u end up with an AR-15 looking AK, in terms of accuracy.

    The reason I ask is that its attached to the barrel and its more moving parts.

    For those who don't know this is not like the system used in the AK47/74, its closer to what is used in an SKS or true SVD not a PSL or romak.

    So this system has been tried and proven on some very useful rifles. DI systems were designed with accuracy in mind and it works, but its filthy.
     
  2. Nathantc

    Nathantc New Member

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    i found this, there is a change in MOA at 200 yards, from this M&P-15 in this vid

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v57gQ4-VEYw]David Sams Compares a Direct Gas Impingement vs. Gas Piston AR-15 for Match Accuracy - YouTube[/ame]


    and here is just some simple info on the two for thouse who dont know or havent really looked in to this system
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6auXTiqNtEo[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2011

  3. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    had a sr556 from ruger. it was 100% reliable. butttttt.... it was closer to a ak47 than a ar15 in accuracy. was it due to the piston or just typical schlock ruger ?? i dunno. but i wasnt happy with it for that and a few other annoying reasons. ended up trading it off for a 1903A3
     
  4. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    I have an LWRC that is very accurate. I have put 1 or 2 rounds through it, however they have been at 100yds or less.

    It recoils differently then the others but shoots straight and smooth. My only beef is the thing was $2k before adding the rail, stock, optic, etc... I could have had 2 BCMs instead.

    I wonder how the piston rod effects the free float aspect.

    I just don't see how us semi only guys can benefit from the piston system.
     
  5. Nathantc

    Nathantc New Member

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    For me it would be flexibility, good ammo runs clean any way and wont need much cleaning, but cheap ammo is filthy and DI guns will suffer with cheap ammo.

    I want to have my accuracy when hunting but I want to run wolf or tula when just getting trigger time, if that makes sense.

    The piston system would be more reliable and require less maintenance when running crap ammo.

    If any one here want to make the comment that they only use the best ammo at all times than one of two things is happening here, your have to much money, or not enough trigger time.
     
  6. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    I like that last comment lol.

    How much ammo do you plan to put through your rifle in a range trip?

    Also think about the guys who could be coming to the end of their loadout as we type. Our loadout was a few hundred rounds. They are using M4s w/ DI gas systems as have the thousands before them.

    I burnt up almost half a case of Tula today in my DD. I did have my first malfunction, a FTE which might be a result of me experimenting w/ a new lube technique.

    It is sitting in it's case at my feet waiting for the boresnake as I type. I guess I'm dumb to any extra work required to run "cheap" ammo in a DI gun.

    My point is that the DI system is a great and reliable system.
     
  7. Nathantc

    Nathantc New Member

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    It is, but the thing that made me love my 74 was that I never cleaned it but about once every 4 or 5 thousand rounds, all I did was use a dry lube on all moving parts and just have fun.

    Both of my ar's are DI guns and even after one mag (30rds) the carrier, bolt, and firing pin are dirty enough to leave black crap on my hands. Idk, I clean them after every use, no matter how many rounds I fire. That said my sks that I have I have had sense I was 16, all I have ever done is oil it. Still never gives me a lick of trouble.

    As for how many rounds in a range trip, I don't go to a range, IM in the country on 20acrs of land and I shoot just about every day, yes I burn up a lot of ammo.

    I buy wal-mart out of ammo every time I need ammo. I know I can buy in bulk online but if u do the math, wal-mart is cheaper after shipping.

    Its just some thing that would be nice, if a piston system can be accurate.

    I know its possible cause this beast is accurate, and piston driven.
    AR15 in .338 | GunBlog.com - Your source for all things Guns
     
  8. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    By all means get a piston upper.
     
  9. Nathantc

    Nathantc New Member

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    i think im going to try the osprey conversion on that varminter barrel and see how it does, if it dont work guess ill have it for my 20" 7.62x39 build
     
  10. FCross7

    FCross7 New Member

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    A lot of the points have been covered, but there are 2 things that I want to add.

    #1 Piston ARs don't run cleaner than DI guns. The bcg of piston systems runs cleaner, but all the fouling that would have been in the bolt is simply transferred to the piston, and then some. So the fouling isn't less, it's just in a different spot.

    #2 Those ARs in 338 and 300 WM are totally different piston systems than what you'll find on anything else. Because the receivers are so long, they are able to put the piston in the receiver above the bcg, getting it off the barrel and thus virtually eliminating any bad barrel harmonics it would have caused They actually have a gas block and gas tube similar to a DI gun.

    IMO, for my application, DI is a better system for a semi-auto rifle.

    -Fred
     
  11. Nathantc

    Nathantc New Member

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    didnt know that about the big ar gas system, thanks for that.
     
  12. FCross7

    FCross7 New Member

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    No worries. That's what we're here for. Those guys at 270 long range or whatever the name of the company is put some serious R&D into those rifles and it shows. They seem to be a very nice system, and if I had an extra 10 grand or so lying around, I'd pick one up.

    But honestly, you can't really go wrong with either a DI or Piston gun. Both have pros and cons. I bet if you got a piston upper( I wouldn't do a conversion), you'd be happy, and I bet if you stuck with DI, you'd be happy too.

    -Fred
     
  13. Nathantc

    Nathantc New Member

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    there is no varmint style piston upper that i have seen yet. just saying.
     
  14. FCross7

    FCross7 New Member

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    Ah, that's a very good point, hadn't thought of that. You might end up having to do a conversion then. Unless someone knows of a piston setup with a linger heavy barrel.

    -Fred
     
  15. Nathantc

    Nathantc New Member

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    i know i am goint to build a 7.62x39 20" upper, and i want it piston driven. so if i buy the conversion and try it with my bushmaster varminter barrel and its a no go, atleast it wont be a complete waist.