Panera Bread bans Firearms carrying Citizens

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by tinbucket, Feb 13, 2016.

  1. Appalachained

    Appalachained New Member

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    I have a Panera Bread right behind my house. It's been there for a few years and I've never eaten there. The main reason (before reading this thread) is because I refuse to pay that much for a Turkey sandwich. I could conceal carry there if I wanted since in KY those signs don't carry the weight of the law, but why would I knowing they don't want my business.
     
  2. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    maybe the sign doesn't carry the weight of law, but trespassing is still criminal act in every state, and when you ignore such a sign, then by your very action of carrying beyond that sign, you are trespassing.

    would you be as obliging if someone ignored the no trespassing signs on your property?

    what if someone felt that their rights trumped your rights as a property owner?

    what if you didn't allow people to smoke in your house, and someone lit up a cigarette or cigar, disregarding your wishes?

    but hey, signs in your state don't carry the weight of law, do they?

    just something to give some thought to.
     

  3. rjd3282

    rjd3282 New Member

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    It's only trespassing if you're asked to leave and don't.
     
  4. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    no sir, I believe you are incorrect. if the sing is posted that says "No Guns" and you enter carrying a gun, then by technicality, you are not welcome because you are carrying a gun and by definition of not being welcome, that sir is trespassing.

    but feel free to be the test case to prove me wrong.

    and you need to ask yourself what if. what if, the owner or employee of the business see's your firearm and instead of confronting you, say because the are afraid, or think you might be there to rob them and they call the cops? guess what, you now could be charged with trespassing if the owner decides to push the issue and that sir, is his right as property owner. which now could put your ability to carry a gun in jeopardy, along with possibly having to pay a fine.

    so now tell me was it worth it just because you thought a sign didn't carry the weight of law?

    you are free to do as you wish and pushing the boundaries of legalities is your choice if that's what you wish to do, but personally, i'd rather err on the side of caution and either shop elsewhere, or disarm rather than risk my freedom and my rights.

    and just to clarify my position, as a property owner, a business owner, and a law abiding gun owner, i'd push the issue of having you arrested for trespassing, just to set an example that some of us law abiding gun owners are going to tolerate those trying to set a bad example.
     
  5. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It is a mute point. If you are CC no one knows you are armed unless you need to use your weapon!!!:D
     
  6. Kennydale

    Kennydale Member

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    I like the Panera Bread in Sugar Land, TX,. Texas has a very definitive sign for No OC or No CC. All others can be ignored. If the facility notices you are carrying and ask you to leave, not to do so, is still considered TRESPASS but it is just a fine, if you refuse.. MY Panera I go to puts up a 30:06 sign (No CC with force of law) I will no longer spend my money there!
     
  7. rjd3282

    rjd3282 New Member

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    You may believe I'm incorrect but I know I'm correct. That's the way the law reads here. No crime unless you refuse to leave. A sign posted by a citizen is not the law. Company policies aren't law.

    Under Tort Law, a property owner may bring a Civil Law suit against a trespasser in order to recover damages or receive compensatory relief for injury suffered as a direct result of a trespass. In a tort action, the plaintiff must prove that the offender had, but knowingly violated, a legal duty to respect another person’s right to property, which resulted in direct injury or loss to the plaintiff.

    Since there is no direct injury or loss, let alone proving the "trespasser actually saw the sign, good luck in court.
     
  8. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    you might want to rethink that. if I place a sign on my property that says "No Guns" I am within my legal rights to have that sign enforced. if you are carrying, you are not welcome as long as you are carrying and not being welcome is the same as trespassing.

    Webster's Dictionary definition of trespass: to violate the rights of another; to go beyond the bounds of what is right or proper; a transgression of law or moral duty; an intrusion.

    legal definition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trespass#Trespass_to_land

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trespass_to_land

    and just to be clear, it's not a civil matter, but a criminal matter.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trespass_to_land#United_States

    and to keep justifying your actions of doing something wrong, knowing you are doing something wrong, is well,....you figure it out.
     
  9. partdeux

    partdeux Well-Known Member Supporter

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    State law provides direction.

    WRT Police going into businesses that have no gun sign posted, so you're saying that police lives have higher priority and trump business owners request?
     
  10. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    how many times have you ever seen a police officer disarm before entering an establishment with a "No Guns" sign?

    and I do believe they have a certain exemption because they are law enforcement.

    but of course lets do like Britain where most of the police are not armed!
     
  11. Balota

    Balota ... but I used to play keyboards. Staff Member Admin Moderator Lifetime Supporter

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    Jim, one small correction. And with that the situation changes unless you are so perfect with your CC that no one could possibly ever catch you.
     
  12. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I personally have seen many people conceal carrying and have spotted their pistol. maybe i'm more in tune to it because I carry, or am more observant, but maybe their concealment of their carry gun wasn't as good as they thought .

    just something to consider. and I have said before, wardrobe malfunctions happen.
     
  13. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And Jim, you're very well aware that every LEO has been trained to look for weapons.
     
  14. mseric

    mseric Active Member

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    Concealed Carry.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  15. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't care if they catch me!!! I have the character to do the right thing, not knuckle under and do the 'easy' thing!!:)
     
  16. partdeux

    partdeux Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And they should not.

    Nor should they expect special class privilege.
     
  17. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't consider it special class privilege.

    maybe you should see about joining, and going to the police academy and going through all the steps required to be certified to be police officer.
     
  18. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Then why can a priest perform a marriage, but you can't??

    Why can your neighbor drive an 18 wheel truck, but you can't?

    Why can your doctor prescribe medicine but you can't.

    Stop and think before allowing yourself to give purely emotional responses.
     
  19. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    most excellent response Mr. Locutus.

    and I believe that some have earned the right of doing what others can't due to a commitment to a chosen path in life, whether that be a police officer, a priest, or a doctor.
     
  20. primer1

    primer1 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Good point, but the right to marry someone, drive an 18 wheeler, and prescribe legal highly addictive dope aren't constitutional rights