Outshoot your pistol

Discussion in 'General Handgun Discussion' started by NGIB, Mar 17, 2010.

  1. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    The current XD vs XDm thread raises this issue and I think it's an interesting one. The XDm has a "match" grade barrel - so does this means it's more inherently accurate than a "regular" barrel? Can you, with your shooting skills, exceed the capability of the plain old XD?

    Personally, while I'm a decent shot, there is no way I can out shoot the mechanical accuracy of any pistol I own. Yes, I own some "target" grade 1911s but TBH I shoot pretty much the same with any of the 1911s I have - even the el cheapo RIA. Just wondering if you folks are closer to out shooting your pistols than I am...
     
  2. lonyaeger

    lonyaeger Active Member

    Well said, Dave. The speculation, anticipation, and conversation over the old XD/XDm debate is something that I've never understood....but it has to be one of the most popular subjects on the forum. I don't get it.
     

  3. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    Nor do I Lon. I understand the need for a "match" grade barrel in a rife where you're going after extreme accuracy at long distances - but in a short range gun like a pistol? Sure, many "match" grade 1911s have "guarantees" of accuracy - but the vast majority of us don't shoot well enough to prove it.

    JD, does the Nighthawk come with any guarantee of accuracy?
     
  4. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    Dave, I think you hit the nail square on the head!

    I think the population of championship shooters, just like the population of F1 drivers or NHL hockey players, is small and elite.

    The members of this exclusive fraternity put their talents on public display each time they perform in their arena of talent.

    As this demonstration of talent evolves, so do the tools of its participants. This natural progression keeps the contestants relentlessly striving to advance their skills.

    The tools used at this level of competition are far and above superior to those available to us peons. Keep this in mind; the champions aren’t even shooting to 100% of their gun’s potential.

    With all that lead-in, IMHO none of us even come close to achieving or exceeding the mechanical level of accuracy of the guns available to us. (This is my personal opinion and does not include Jimenez Arms, Jennings Firearms, French MAB's or glocks!) [​IMG]
     
  5. lonyaeger

    lonyaeger Active Member

    Oh man, you WENT there, didn't you???? :eek:
     
  6. Mr. Bluesky

    Mr. Bluesky New Member

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    Nope, not a chance. I still only shoot 2" groupings with my Ruger. =P
     
  7. Gojubrian

    Gojubrian New Member

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    No, I just shoot ok.

    Here are some of my targets.

    Notice some bullseye shots. That means my pistols (browning, cz, kimber) are capable of making that shot. If it can heppen once it can be done everytime, but not by me.
    I'm a once or twice a month shooter. You'd have to shoot thousands and thousands every year to get good enough too do that. I don't have the time or the funds.
    I'll probably never be as good as my pistols.
     

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  8. Missileman

    Missileman New Member

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    The way I look at it, being the mediocre pistol shot that I am, is that an inaccurate pistol has just as much chance of helping my score as hurting it...
     
  9. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    At my age and with my crappy eyes, the days of bullseye shooting for me are long past. I'm very happy to keep everything in a fist sized group at POA at 10 yards firing rapidly. Yes, I have some nice hardware; however, I don't need a match grade gun with my limitations - it's hype as far as my skills are concerned...
     
  10. Ubergopher

    Ubergopher New Member

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    Your ideas are intriguing sir, and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

    Also, x2.

    Fun story, when I went to go qual on the M-9 for my first deployment, the RSO suggested to several people (myself included) that if it came down to us using our handguns, we'd be better off throwing it at the target and hoping to either knock them out, or give us enough time to reload our M-4 and use that to kill them.

    ...That or surrender.
     
  11. Missileman

    Missileman New Member

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    That had to be encouraging! At least the M9 gave you a bunch of rounds and rapid reload--you could make a lot of noise! When I qualified in 1973 we were using a 38 Special S&W revolver--it was a better hammer than firearm in my hands!
     
  12. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    I loved the Combat Masterpiece's that the AF used to use. These were sweet shooters...
     
  13. Missileman

    Missileman New Member

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    I could never get used to them--maybe because they made us qualify double action and I grew up on 1911s. I admit for a revolver they were smooth--probably because they had about a million rounds through them. Carried one with 12 spares in the leather drop-down ammo holders (6 rounds per) during my job in the special weapons area, but had an M16 also as primary weapon and always carried that when outside the bunker. I love my S&W 627 now, but it has a performance center trigger which really helps my shaky hands.
     
  14. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    No, no guarantee that you will shoot any better with their pistols. I did get a three round target with all three pistols that showed what it was capable of from a Ransom Rest, if I recall properly.

    H&K does the same thing. 3 rounds, from a rest, to show the weapon is capable.

    I have never been able to outshoot any weapon I have ever owned except for a .22 rifle given to me by my grandfather that was his WWII training rifle and the barrel is probably shot out of it. I never changed the barrel, but I did cho it down and recrown it. I still shoot better with my 10/22, but that rifle is sentimental and won't be changed in my life.

    All of my builds are for the utmost in performance. The reason being is that I don't want to spend that level of money to achieve a level of performance I can easily obtain or surpass. That would be stupid.

    With my rifles, they will ALWAYS shoot better than I ever can, but there is room for me to work and build my skill set.

    With any pistol, the actual engagement range that you could REASONABLY expect to have to use it, and not be brought up on charges longer than Cane's list of things he loves about Colt, is what? About 10 yards?

    Maybe 15 yards at THE MOST?

    Sure, you can shoot it further for fun. But to expect to use it at that range, legally, and not find yourself in a world of trouble? Really?

    I think Match Grade, like the term Sniper in another thread, is a term used to describe an anticipated level of accuracy out of the box. It's a marketing point. A benchmark if you will.

    People gravitiate towards it because they want "The Best". Match Grade is better than Shooting Grade is better than K-Mart Grade.

    *shrug*

    What are you gonna do?
     
  15. Fisherking

    Fisherking New Member

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    The way I look at it is the pistol will probably out shoot me, but if I know the pistol is dead nuts on then I will only have to worry about building my skill on it.
    How can you build your skill on an inacurate gun being riffle or pistol? You don't know were the next round will go if you are doing every thing the same.
    An acurate gun will help you build your skill and not second gess yourself in what you are doing wrong.
    My 2 cents for what it is worth.
    F.K.
     
  16. Viking

    Viking Active Member

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    The match barrel in my XDm 40 didn't help me a bit, that's not to say that in the right hands it may be a very accurate weapon. Now on the other hand my Stoeger Cougar 40 which doesn't have a match barrel is very accurate for me. A lot of things factor in, weight distribution, trigger pull length, weight of pull, how it fits in your hand and of course, practice. I haven't had enough practice with the XDm as yet to know if it's going to be more accurate, all I know is that in out of the box performance the Cougar beat it with a barrel that's only 3.6" long.
     
  17. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Well, I KNOW that I can shoot better than SOME of my firearms. I have done one hole groups at 50 meters with a couple of my .22 rifles, but that will just not happen with a light hunting rifle. MOST of my handguns are as good as I am, but have had a milsurp 1911AI that, if you shook it, the barrel rattled in the bushing like a New Years Eve noisemaker. Would hold "Minute of badguy" at 25 meters, but that was about it. My Browning Hi-Power could put a full mag of 9mm in a lemon sized group at that range. Have a Winchester 100 light sporter in .308 that is good for about 200 meters for deer, but an old Savage .220 that is "death to groundhogs" out to 2 or 3 zip codes.
     
  18. M14sRock

    M14sRock Active Member

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    "Match grade" barrel and "Match grade" chamber are not the same thing. And one does not always come with the other.

    A Match grade chamber is tighter than a standard chamber, and will not always reliably chamber all ammo.

    My old .40SW Springfield Armory 1911A1 had a fully supported, match grade barrel and chamber. But it did not reliably chamber my reloads. My Glock 22's and 23 did. They were nowhere near as accurate as the SAI, though plenty accurate for their intended purposes.

    My Steyr AUG was the same. It shot tight groups, but was not 100% reliable with old surplus ammo. But my beat up old Mini 14 was 100% reliable with the same ammo, just not as accurate as the AUG.

    It is all a trade off. I prefer reliability over Match grade accuracy, in a practical sense.
     
  19. DarinCraft

    DarinCraft New Member

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    What I can't figure out is why I can shoot a ragged hole with my Kimber, a 1" group with the XD and about a 3-4" group with my G22. Reasonalbly I am not outshooting my GLock or XD, but why is this happening?
     
  20. Gojubrian

    Gojubrian New Member

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    My first thought is the differences in the triggers.