Out-of-state friend giving me a handgun -- FFL transfer required?

Discussion in 'Colorado Gun Forum' started by pg_rider, Dec 15, 2012.

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  1. pg_rider

    pg_rider New Member

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    Hey folks, new member here. I live in Colorado Springs; a buddy of mine in St Louis wants to give me his Ruger SR9. Can he simply UPS it to me, or does it HAVE to be sent to an FFL for a formal transfer? I've read conflicting reports and am looking for a straight answer. Appreciate any advice!
     
  2. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    you might get some better answers if you post this in the NFA/Class 3 and FFL section of the forum.

    i am pretty sure (but please check, i am not an attorney!) that an out of state transfer of a firearm has to go through an FFL dealer to be a legal transfer. please check to be sure.
     

  3. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It needs to be transferred through an FFL.
     
  4. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    yes its required outside of your state.
     
  5. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    With the sole exception of INHERITANCE- any transfer of ownership of a firearm across a state line MUST be made thru a FFL in the destination state. Includes sales, gifts, raffles, giveaways, etc ad infinitum.

    This is covered in Federal law under Title 18, US Code, section 922. By the letter of the law, the firearm must go TO a FFL in your state of residence. You receive it from them after doing a 4473 and a background check.

    An inherited firearm may be sent directly to the recipient by the executor, so long as possession is legal in the receiving state. Same law.

    If your bud is not a FFL, he will have to use UPS or FedEx Next Day Air, and it will bite him for about $70 in shipping. However, if he can find a friendly dealer at his end, the dealer CAN use US Mail (only dealers and mfgrs can MAIL a handgun). That is usually a LOT cheaper. Priority mail flat rate box.
     
  6. pg_rider

    pg_rider New Member

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    Thank you all for the quick and helpful responses! Let me ask though -- given the wording of Paragraph 5B under Title 18, US Code, section 922 (below), it seems an FFL transfer is not required if the firearm is being loaned to the recipient. Assuming I plan to return the Ruger to my friend at a later date (after I purchase my own), is the FFL transfer required?

    "...except that this paragraph shall not apply to
    (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a
    firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an
    acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who
    is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of
    the State of his residence, and​
    (B) the loan or rental of a
    firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting
    purposes;​
     
  7. coconceal

    coconceal New Member

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    It's probably just best to jump through the hoops and transfer it through an FFL!
     
  8. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    PG- There has been (AFAIK) no definition of temporary, other than the dictionary definition- but the ATF has more lawyers than I have. And your bud will still have trouble shipping the gun, since UPS and FedEx will require that it be shipped TO a FFL, and yes, he MUST declare that it is a firearm to the shipper.

    Rather than tapdance in the minefield, find a local FFL who will do the transfer on the cheap. There is a "Find a FFL" function on the home page for gunbroker.com, usually shows their prices for a transfer, just plug in your zip code to find the ones near you.
     
  9. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    We had loved one leave his guns to members of the family. We ended up going thru an FFL just to cut the red tape.
     
  10. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    it's not better to jump through the hoops and use an FFL, it's the law to do so.
     
  11. willfully armed

    willfully armed New Member

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    Quit trying to justify reasons to break the law.

    If it crosses state line, FFL Transfer PERIOD.
     
  12. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

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    Don't forget state laws may apply as well. Even if it were a loan or inheritance either state may still require paperwork. Safest and most legal way to do it is with an FFL, anything else is asking for serious trouble in an effort to save a few bucks.
     
  13. spook

    spook New Member

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    I am curious how many of you replying are attorneys? I am not a firearms area expert but my understanding of the law is that if you are a private party shipping to a private party, no FFL is involved. And yes I am an attorney who lives in CO. My sister shipped me a handgun I had left with her by mistake in Utah by putting it in a USPS box and mailing it to me. No prob Bob.
     
  14. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    i think we made it very clear we weren't attorneys. and if you broke the law by doing it the way you did, then i guess you could always represent yourself!

    just because it got through doesn't mean what you did was legal. and i am pretty sure that the ATF has definate rules that need to be followed and any gun transfer across state lines does require an FFL tranfer. private parties or not.
     
  15. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    That was NOT a transfer of ownership. Big difference. And no, I'm not an attorney either. I do however, have a knack for understanding legalese. But even then, "transfer of ownership" isn't hard to understand.

    Any transfer of ownership across state lines must go thru an FFL, except in inheritance cases. And even then, wouldn't it just be so much easier to do it in inheritance cases, than to have someone give you grief later?


    Nahh, any time it crosses state lines, for a transfer of ownership, use an FFL.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2013
  16. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    Now, an area I'm curious in...
    Can you ship WITHIN the state to do a private sale, without an FFL?
     
  17. KimberFan

    KimberFan New Member

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    Darn straight use an FFL...the Feds are looking to fill their coffers on every turn and they love picking the fruit off the low hanging branches. Don't give them any excuse to tap on your shoulder.
     
  18. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    i have heard that within in the state that as long as per state law it was legal to do so you can. really not 100% sure about that. i think it would still be best even within the state to go through an FFL to just be safe rather than sorry. personally i would err on the side of caution myself.
     
  19. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    Hey Spook. You are obviously not a lawyer that deals with firearm law. Unless your sister is an FFL she commited a crime by mailing you a handgun. She just didnt get caught. It does not matter who's gun it was. It is a crime to use the USPS to mail a handgun unles you are a dealer. Go to USPS.com. It is clearly stated there.
     
  20. KimberFan

    KimberFan New Member

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    You broke the law.

    § 178.30 Out-of-State disposition of firearms by nonlicensees.
    No nonlicensee shall transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any other nonlicensee, who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides:
     
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