optics ? cleaning?

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by suzychapstick, Mar 30, 2013.

  1. suzychapstick

    suzychapstick New Member

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    This firearms forum and people have helped me out greatly in putting together a gun. I finally got the parts needed and put together. I fired it once and it cycled a bullet. Its been leaning against the wall ever since. I've just got so sick of hearing about guns in the news and everywhere, I had to take a break from this for a while. Finding and paying for the parts needed at the worst time just added to the headache. Anyway what I have is mostly rock river. It has a 20" varmint barrel (RRA #0550). I need to do something about a scope. I find an ar awkward for me to rest side of my face against while aiming. I'm thinking though I want the scope as low as possible. I bought some cheap weaver mounts, set my .22 scpoe on it. I think I want it lower yet. I'm looking for a reccomendation on some very low profile mounts, and a scope. I don't know much about scopes. I've seen ones that have extra lines under and to the side of where crosshairs intersect for bullet drop and windage. I think I might like that. As far as ammo, the best stuff I have is american eagle .223 and some 5.56 xm855L. We have a bunch of squirrels, the farthest they range from house is about 400 yards. I don't know what this gun is capable of accuracy wise at what distances. I don't want to overpay, but don't want to buy something that the gun will outshoot. So I'd appreciate anyones suggestions on this. Also a guy I was working w/ told me he has a scope on his bushmaster, w/ iron sights mounted to the side of his rails. He can twist the gun at a 45 degree angle and use his iron sights. That sounds real nice to me. Does that work as good as it sounds?
    My other question may sound very nieve, but its about cleaning. I've looked all over for a .223 bore brush. Haven't seen any in stores. It seems a .22 brush would be just fine. I mean theres just .0003 in bore dia, right? Well if a .22 bore brush is meant for a .223, why doesn't the manufacturer print 223 and .22 on the package it comes in? I did see some 223 brushes on ebay, the had a set of large bristles on it also, I think for cleaning the inside of the bullet shell housing or something. I'm not sure how'd you ever run the thing through a barrel though. I've read all this stuff about bore snakes and scarring your barrel w/ the aluminum cleaning rod. I'm really confused about this. I mean, your firing slugs from an explosive charge through this barrel, how is an aluminum rod going to harm or damage the gun? Also I've stood and looked at bore snakes in the store. It seems that shrapnell would become embedded in the cord, and using it repeatedly on your gun, you'd dragging the stuff you just cleaned out back through the gun. Am I right, or am I missing something here. Anyone know of a good video or explanation on this. Any suggestions on these questions would be appreciated.
     
  2. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    Suzy,

    First of all you may have some difficulty getting anything lower than what you were speaking about. The reason is in order to mount a decent sized scope Like a Leupold, Nikon or other scopes on an AR you need a mount to offset the scope farther forward toward the front of the rifle. Like the Rock River Arms cantilever Scope Mount. This is so you can get the proper eye relief when shooting the rifle and especialy in the prone position. The reason you can not get lower is due to the size of the Objective Lenses of most scopes. 40MM is about as small as you can go and still get a good qualtiy scope. I prefer 44 MM and mostly 50MM Objective Lenses. The larger the more light it lets in. If the rings and mounts are too low the scope will not mount because the Objective Lens will hit the barrel of the rifle. And prevent the mounting of the scope in the rings. I have a 20" Rock River Varmint myself. I have my scope mounted on a Rock River Scout Rail and Medium Height Rings. Works well! But the Cantilever Scop Mount or RRA Offset Rings sets the Scope a little farther down than mine does.
    Regarding bore brushes the 22 cal brush is what you want. "Brass" or the new Stiff Nylon Bore Brushes but never stainless. You should always clean your rifle from the chamber to the muzzle. (Rear to Front) I use a coated cleaning rod with a ball bearing handle. Mine happens to be a Dewey Rod and brass tip. Nylon tips are also OK they just will not last long. Also OTIS makes a great cleaning kit that pulls through the bore from the rear to the front. It is not a bore snake!
    But as for Iron sights on a varmint rifle I can think of no good reason if you buy a scope that has a low to high power rate. Like 3.5 X10 or 4X12 for example. 3.5X or 4X for close targets and on up for longer targets.

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  3. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    Excellent information as usual Sniper!
     
  4. greeney

    greeney New Member

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    So does noone like bore snakes? Too aggressive? I'm still not sure of a good way to clean, and season my barrel. I don't want to make it an event but I want to maintain it. Sorry for jacking the thread a little. Also 400 yards should be no problem for the gun, can't offer more on the scope choice. I didn't notice the original part, but you mentioned you had some 5.56 ammo, just want to make sure you are chambered for 5.56.
     
  5. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    You may have seen a brush like this-

    chamber-brush-367.jpg

    That is a CHAMBER brush- used only from the breech- long bristles clean inside the lugs.
     
  6. suzychapstick

    suzychapstick New Member

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    thanks guys. I didn't know that the bigger dia scope let in more light. I'll keep that in mind while trying to pick one out. Greeney, I'm glad you brought this up aboput making sure it's chambered for 5.56. I made a thread about this upper I bought on firingline. I had some concerns about it because I've found no markings on it. I bought it as factory new advertised as a RRA 0550 on Gunbroker from some guy who calls himself the AK47man. He had a couple thousand sales, and believed the ad at the time. I get the thing and theres no writing on it whatsoever except a rra on top of the rail. I cant see under the handguard. When examining it I found gunpowder residue in bore of barrel, and fragments of a dry white cleaning patch. It appears like its been fired and someone made a weak attempt to do a helfa** cleaning job. I tried contacting rra about the deal, I asked why theres no identity on the thing, they said they use so many different makers of barrels at different times, that they don't know what to tell me. I contacted Wilson Barrels, they also gave me a run around answer, and said they'd have one of there techs call me back that never did. An 0550 is a 5.56 223 wylde chamber. I have a hard time believing that a reputable manufacture doesn't mark the product. I can't believe that they don't write what caliber either. I then saw about a half dozen other rra varmints advertised on gunbroker. I sent them questions asking if there was any writing on the barrel. Only one out of about six sellers said there was. All others including a guy called ton80 ( who sells alot of rra) said there is no writing on it. So honestly, I don't know what I have. I won't be buying anything more from ak47man, and am going to try to avoid buying anything over internet. Do you have any suggestions on this?
     
  7. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    Suzy,

    Your Rock River 20" Varmint Barrel is a 1 in 8 Twist Stainless Steel Air Guaged Barrel in a Wylde Chamber which means basicaly it is a 5.56 Match Chamber developed by Bill Wylde. It will shoot either 223 Remington or 5.56 NATO ammunition very well. All Bill did was tighten up the chamber slightly for competition events since he was a match shooter. All Rock River Rifles are chambered in 5.56 or Wylde in the match and varmint guns. They are all listed on their website so no need to put it on the barrel. They are all listed there! The only one they make in the 1 in 12 twist barrel is the 24 inch Varminter which you can order in 1 in 8 or 1 in 12. In the tactical rifles a 1 in 7 twist can be specified. But the standard twist in them is 1 in 9.

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  8. suzychapstick

    suzychapstick New Member

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    Thanks sniper03. Thank you for the cleaning info also. I did my best to determine I had the real thing. I drug a patch through the barrel and determined it was a 1:8 twist. I mic'd the outside of barrel and got the same measurement as what rra website says OD of barrel is. Thanks for the explanation about Bill Wylde. I like little stories like that. They stick in my head and I never forget them. I guess the only thing left to do is get a scope and go out and shoot. I'll probally post a pic of it on here after that. thanks everyone.
     
  9. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    Suzy,

    I think you will be very impressed with it since I have had two of the RRA 20" Varmint A-4 Uppers and they are hard to believe, capable of 1/4 inch groups at 100 yards when we have a good scope, good trigger, good ammo and of course the human factor. If you are like me, some days you shoot exceptionally well and some days you don't. Someday depending on the Receiver you have you will need to get you a RRA National Match 2 Stage Trigger. And if you even want to improve it more get some KNS Anti Rotate Pins for the Trigger and Hammer. Do not forget the mount that mounts your scope forward of the normal! You will be smoking at that point!!!!!:D We will be waiting on the Pictures and Range Report.
    Take Care!
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  10. treehugger49

    treehugger49 New Member

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    The NATO grade M193, M855 type ammo is great for plinking, and OK for man-size targets as you go out to longer ranges, but don't expect accuracy to what your rifle is capable of with that stuff.

    I have a RRA entry tactical that shoots sub-MOA with Hornady V-MAX ammunition, but my groups open up to 3" - 3 1/2" at 100 yards with the NATO stuff.

    Have fun!
     
  11. suzychapstick

    suzychapstick New Member

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    Yes c3shooter, that is the bruches I was trying to describe that I saw on ebay. From the breech OK. Now the part that I'm a little confused about is that the smaller bristols in front would go into the barrel, and it appears you'd have to reverse direction of brush while its in the barrel and chamber. I'm not saying that a bad thing, I really dont know? Any kind of hints or dos or don'ts w/ that type of brush would help me. Well Sniper03, thanks. I actually broke down and bought a rra two stage trigger. I ended up getting a chromed one from PK, because they were selling them for about the same price as a non chromed one was going for on gunbroker at the time. I also figured if or when the prices come back down to earth, I'd buy a chrome bcg, and it might look good together. I'm glad you brought up the subject about pins. Because the pins that came w/ my trigger were chromed also. I thought those chromed pins would look funny on my black receiver. Also the pind sisn't want to puch in freely through receiver holes. I was unable to push them through the trigger also. I mic'd them and the pins from my DPMS kit were .002 smaller. So I decided to use them for the time being. Well those pind didn't want to slide through the trigger either. After really examing the trigger pivot bore, or whatever it's called, it appeared as some chrome get gobbed up in the bore of triggers pivot. It was worse at one end than the other. I was also dissapointed buy the finish. I'd feel plenty safe saying this trigger never saw a reamer. The spirally marks or grooves looked as bad as when I drill a hole through steel w/ a bit that hasn't been sharpened properly, and is cutting w/ one flute. I'm not exagerating. I put a 3/16 bit I think it was in a chuck, and ran it through there by hand. I had some cheap round finishing stone that diemakers use, and worked it in the end that gave me the most problem. I wanted to just send the trigger back, but by this point, I'd about had it w/ fed ex, post offices, gun dealers, and everything else above. Anyway, I got the trigger pivoting freely on the dpms pin. The dpms pin doesn't fit tight in the receiver, however it's not rotating at the moment. Even the bore on the dpms trigger is baby a** smooth. I'd say they honed it after being reamed. I just figured, well quality usually goes down and quantity goes up in about any type of manufacturing when theres this kind of demand weve been seeing for this stuff. I just had to pick the worst time to build a gun. I didn't try to force the chromed pins into my receiver, and don't intend to. I was thinking if the dpms pins weren't hardened, a light knurling at each end would make them seat nicely. But now I'm going to look into these pins your talking about. Wow, treehugger49, I'm getting a rude awakening here. I thought my 5.56 855 was going to be the most accurate stuff I had. I'm glad you mentioned this, because I would have been out there blaming the gun. Does the 5.56 just shoot farther then? Well what I have is alot of herters steel ammo in 223. And a fair amount of federal american eagle in 223. I don't see myself buying any other ammo at this time. I was talking to some guy I don't even know in a gun store while waiting in line. He was telling me that herters is more accurate than american eagle out of his mini 14. I really questioned him on that. But he swore to it, saying that he thought federal was taking retardent out of the powder in the american eagle because he was seeing fire come out end of his barrel on his mini14 when shooting american eagle.