Open Minded Thoughts

Discussion in 'History' started by Uptown_General_Roc, Jul 14, 2013.

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  1. Uptown_General_Roc

    Uptown_General_Roc New Member

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    I don't understand how you can't see Zimmerman at fault at all

    He Profiled

    He Followed

    He Confronted (with orders not to confront him wait for a peace keeping officer to arrive)

    He put matters in his own hands with possibilities of a situation that can go bad. Trayvon had committed no crime to be profiled as a suspect. Only crime that was committed was a shooting death of a teen that started with a bad decision by Zimmerman. But he holds on fault here?

    Only 2 know what really happened but most are running with a one side story. It's 2 sides to every story and one don't live to tell it.

    Even if Trayvon Attack Zimmerman first Zimmerman never had orders to get out his truck. Once that happened he opened him self up to a bad situation. Let's just say what if Trayvon was a Thug with a gun Zimmerman left his safe zone to put his life in danger himself he should still be at fault.

    A Murder Case was a little reaching for the stars by man would have been a litte justice for the bad choices he made leading to a fetal shooting that could have been avoided.

    Lots have made this a Black and White issue but it should have been all about justice. I even seen most look to label Trayvon as a thug an make it seems he deserve to died and that's sad he was not in the act of any crime and no one was in any danger for Zimmerman to feel he had to confront him.

    Before you look at Trayvon *** a thug for an attack on Zimmerman put yourself in his shoes for a second... if you was being followed by an unknown stranger and confronted you will be ready to defend yourself. Like I said before 2 knew what happened and it's on a one side story now. but back to my logic it's a sick world we live in Trayvon could have thought all bad thoughts about him as Robber , Kid Napper , Rapist. A random stranger walking up to late night raining self defense is gone be main tactic. The best defense is to have an upper hand on an attack maybe he was thinking that.

    But anyways people we all need to keep a open mind. All come together as one and stop the racism we are dividing as a country.

    I can care less if Zimmerman shot a black kid or an alien I feel his decisions he made was bad and he should a less been punish for them.

    Just Shearing my thoughts how I feel please leave all negative comments to yourself.

    AND EVERYONE ENJOY YOUR DAY

    - Roc
     
  2. j4454

    j4454 New Member

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    I don't think many people like what Zimmerman did. A 911 dispatch cannot give a lawful order just so you know. Zimmerman probably went about it in the wrong way but it is not illegal to approach someone in the street. Regardless of how you "feel" by the letter of the law he did nothing wrong. That's why they didn't charge him initially and why he didn't get convicted.
     

  3. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Would not disagree IF Martin had punched Zimmerman in the face, and got the hell out of there. Or if Martin were on the phone to 911 (instead of his girlfriend)

    However, when you are on top of someone, whacking their head against a concrete sidewalk, the claim that you are defending yourself and trying to escape goes away.

    I feel that what has stirred up emotions on this (For EVERYONE) has been the conscious efforts by the news media- over and over and over- to put their own slant on things. Things like that cute pic of Martin at the age of 12. Attempting to conceal that physically, he was much larger than Zimmerman (17 yrs old or not). Portraying Martin as an angel- instead of the teen booted from school for drugs, under suspicion for burglary in the LAST neighborhood- which is why he is spending time with his Dad in THIS neighborhood.

    The LEGAL question was not did Zimmerman shoot Martin- it was did the State prove that he committed the elements of the crime of murder. Murder is simply NOT killing someone- there are specific legal elements of the crime. It is NOT up to the defense to show he did not, it is up to the State to show he did.

    They failed to do that before a jury that was selected by both sides.
     
  4. nitestalker

    nitestalker New Member

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    This trial is about Florida's Stand Your Ground Law, nothing else. Regardless of arguments of ice tea and candy it is about self defense. Under the Florida Law you do not have to retreat from threat. The law does not define how you got into the situation.
    The Left Wing anti-gun movement is spinning this to challenge the rights of concealed carry. Don't be confused by the issues being used to cloud the real intent of the left.:(
     
  5. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    From the view of the law without any emotions involved:

    1. Neighborhood watchman sees a person that is not familiar with the neighborhood
    2. Person is not a resident of the neighborhood
    3. The neighborhood has been experiencing property crimes and it is dark and the subject is wearing dark clothes which is
    a normal attire of those who commit crimes.
    4. Followed the subject which is not a law violation and is in the normal business of a neighborhood watch person
    5. Dispatcher not an officer tells him not to follow the subject. Has no place to make that determination
    6. Martin disappears for a period
    7. Zimmerman gets out of his vehicle to follow on foot.
    8. Confronted by Martin (Who addressed him on the phone a s a freeky Cracker lending to his demeanor and attitude!)
    9. Martin punched Zimmerman in the face *First Crime = Battery
    10. Martin has Zimmerman on the ground MMA style striking him = Battery & Assault
    11. Martin strikes Zimmerman's head on the sidewalk = Possibility of Serious Bodily Injury according to the law
    12. Deadly force at this point is justified regardless of the injury not causing death but could. Only legal requirement is for
    a reasonable man or women to reasonably believe that they could be subjected to serious bodily injury.
    13. Not to mention Martin's past history which was not allowed in court!
    14. All the above = a logical verdict of Not Guilty

    I spent over 30 years with the law and it was a fair trial. Unfortunately there are those that will try as they did before and during the trial to make it a racial issue when it was not. It was an unfortunate situation at best. Perhaps if Martin would have only talked with Zimmerman and not punched him a broke his nose in the first place. It would have never happened. But I think his true colors were revealed in the Marijuana, Gun and Fighting Pictures on his phone. My heart does go out for the Martin family because it is a terrible thing to lose a child. And also George Zimmerman who will have to live with the taking of a life for the rest of his life. And if our corrupt Government and the NAACP (talk about racists) gets involved what BS he will have to put up with in the future with them!

    03
     
  6. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    As a member of a neighborhood watch, even off duty, Zimmerman saw someone out in the rain after midnight. He called to report it. The dispatcher asked for a description, here is where the "profiling" began. NBC edited the tapes and cut out the dispatchers questions, making it sound like Zimmerman did all of the profiling. NBC is getting sued for this.

    If you are giving info to a dispatcher and they are routing police to investigate, it is reasonable to try to at least keep some idea of location of the subject, to guide police when they arrive. From earlier interviews Zimmerman indicated that he was then ambushed. We may never know the absolute truth of that. But it lends reasonable doubt to a jury.

    As c3 stated, if Martin had confronted Zimmerman and then left, or called the police himself indicating that he was fearful for his own well being, it may lend credibility that Zimmerman was the attacker.

    If I have someone following me I don't try to surprise them, I head to safety.

    Mistakes were made by both parties and the end result is tragic for both. Zimmerman won't have much of a life after this. Travon is dead and his parents lost a son. This does lend itself as a reminder if the absolute gravity of introducing deadly force in a conflict. There are no take-backs and often no real winner.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2013
  7. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Martin's background was not known by Zimmerman at the time of the occurrence so it had no influence on Zimmerman's actions.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2013
  8. Uptown_General_Roc

    Uptown_General_Roc New Member

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    It's Two sides to every story and we can only hear one side what that being said that might not be the whole truth
     
  9. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It is impossible to hear Martin's point of view. We can only speculate.
    He was returning to his father's home and noticed someone following him. He attacked the man.
    You cannot attack someone for following you.
     
  10. Uptown_General_Roc

    Uptown_General_Roc New Member

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    If you believe this guy might attack you first best way to defend yourself is to have an upper hand. Not saying Trayvon was right but Zimmerman could have avoided a situation by staying in his safe zone
     
  11. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    several reasons that Zimmerman was found innocent.

    first of all, he was on the neighborhood watch group and there had been burglaries in that neighborhood, and Martin's actions may have been suspicious to Zimmerman. and he did call it in and they LE on the way. the phone was still on and 911 dispatch did record it during the scuffle. okay let's address this. had Zimmerman provoked Martin into attacking him an then shot him, a reasonable person could assume that call to 911 would have been after the shooting, not before. if someone is out and about at an odd hour dressed in dark clothing, similiar to what a potential thief might wear, when there have already been a rash of burglaries, wouldn't a reasonable person be inclined to be suspicious? i would be.

    it was several weeks before Zimmerman was arrested and the former police chief Bill Lee was terminated or resigned because he felt there wasn't the evidence to support a case of murder and the facts bore out Zimmermans account of the events. there was only an arrest after all the pressure from the media and after Chief Lee was fired or resigned.

    this was tragic set of events that left a young man dead, and another man on trial for that death. if Zimmerman has any conscience, this will eat at him for the rest of his life, even if he acted in self defence. a normal person can't take the life of another person, even if that other person was vicious and evil and not have it change their life. i saw that change in friend of mine many years ago. he was a couple years younger than me and had joined the PD in the town i lived in. he had only been with the PD for few years when one night he shot another young man who was intoxicated at a party and had cut another person with a knife and was threatening my friend with the knife when they arrived at the scene. Jimmy told the young man repeatedly to drop the knife, but instead he advanced and my friend shot him three times, killing him. Jimmy was no longer the same person. he was withdrawn and depressed. he began drinking, ended up divorced and then shortly after that he resigned the PD. it was a justified shooting that left one young man dead, and other young man destroyed and destroyed his family in the process.
     
  12. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You cannot just attack someone because you think he might attack you first. Martin could not have known Zimmerman's intention or motivation for following him.
    If I see a car on the side of the road with a flat tire, I offer assistance. Should that driver attack me?
    If I see a stranger in the neighborhood, I ask where he's going. Should I be attacked?
     
  13. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    exactly. if martin were in such fear for his life from Zimmerman following him, then why didn't he flee the area, or call 911 on his phone instead of his girlfriend? these facts were brought out in trial. any reasonable person who feels their life might be in danger is going to try and get away from the area if possible. Martin didn't do that. he doubled back and attacked Zimmerman according to Zimmerman's statement and what the evidence showed.
     
  14. Uptown_General_Roc

    Uptown_General_Roc New Member

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    One statement I wanted to leave out was that I believe if Zimmerman had no gun he would have never confronted Trayvon

    If you believe someone is a suspect you got to expect things will possibly go wrong confronting a suspect.

    And if you not physically able to defend yourself why confront a stranger who might take you as a threat

    Alot of people react without thinking when there scared and feel under pressure.

    And you have sick and crazy people in the world that have real issue with there self.

    But you should always proceed with caution confronting a stranger
     
  15. Uptown_General_Roc

    Uptown_General_Roc New Member

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    Some people have to much Pride to run and rather stand around and fight
     
  16. mountainman13

    mountainman13 New Member

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    Or more likely Zimmerman would have been killed by the little thug.
    One way or another the drug using, illegal gun possessing, little burglar thug had it coming.
    If the system hadn't failed him by not already locking him up he would still be alive.
     
  17. The1Monster

    The1Monster New Member

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    That doesn't make it right.
     
  18. Uptown_General_Roc

    Uptown_General_Roc New Member

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    You have nut jobs who can use that as a way to draw you in for an attack. But you also have to look a time of day late nights people are more nervous and cautious
     
  19. Uptown_General_Roc

    Uptown_General_Roc New Member

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    Never said it was right just keeping a open mind to everything
     
  20. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    but are you making the assumption that Zimmerman confronted Martin? because according to Zimmerman's statement, he was going back to his vehicle when he was attacked by Martin. irregardless if Zimmerman confronted Martin and questioned him and Martin attacked him, he would still be in the right to use deadly force to defend his life. and also remember that Zimmerman's phone was still on and connected to the 911 dispatch during the confrontation, attack or scuffle.
     
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