Open Carry incident in Philadelphia, PA

Discussion in 'Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection' started by Daoust_Nat, May 17, 2011.

  1. Daoust_Nat

    Daoust_Nat Well-Known Member Supporter

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    PA is an open carry state. Here is a newspaper story and a you tube recording of an interview with the guy that had the gun. Essentially this guy was carrying legally in Philadelphia with a Glock on his hip and had a run in with police. The Philly Cop stopped him with his service pistol pointed at him. Apparantly the LEO was not aware of the open carry law in PA.


    Man who clashed with cops over legal gun was also armed with audio recorder - Philly.com



    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEQmYHgXBAs]YouTube - Mark Fiorino on the Michael Smerconish Program May 16 2011 Part 1[/ame]
     
  2. USMC-03

    USMC-03 New Member

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    This has been talked about a lot on another thread I'm a member of.

    My opinion on it is this: Even though the cop may have been wrong, that is not the time to make a statement. Take the orders, avoid escalating the situation, and deal with the legal issues after. Wanting to make a statement is not worth ending up dead. Follow the orders, even if you feel they are BS and deal with it after.
     

  3. Beretta

    Beretta New Member

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    I hate guys like this. I wouldn't lose any sleep if this guy had gotten shot.
     
  4. AusLach

    AusLach New Member

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    If old mate's carrying a recording device as well, it's my opinion that he probably walks around looking for a confrontation; either with the cops, or members of the general public. Like the officer said in the link, it certainly looks like a set-up.

    Yes he may be exercising his rights, but at the same time he's not painting responsible gun owners in a very flattering light.
     
  5. WDB

    WDB New Member

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    Yep the guy was lookking to provoke LEO contact and ready to record it. I don't know what was his deal was except his 15 minutes of fame.....posible law suit. Dumb as a box of rocks and does nothing to help the cause. IMHO LEO's are our best friends, why make there jobs harder? Takes away from the work they need to be doing.
     
  6. TheSadPanda

    TheSadPanda New Member

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    I am gonna have to go against the cops on this one. Being a young man (between 18-25) I have yet to have a police officer treat me any better than a second class citizen. These cops pointed the gun at the individual when he represented no threat to anybody. the person in question was carrying legally in every way regarding the law. He informed the officers of that, and they wouldn't hear anything from this guy (MoFo this, EFFin that). These officers did not act accordingly, and treated this guy like total crap. Now, was this guy looking for a confrontation? Very possibly, I wouldn't dare say he wasn't. But if you're going to tell me these cops didn't act like total a$$holes, I am going to have to whole-heartedly disagree. And don't forget that the cops didn't even know the correct law, and it was later admitted by the police dept. that they were in the wrong. In conclusion, I am not defending the guy that got arrested, but I am more upset with how the officers conducted themselves.
     
  7. Gojubrian

    Gojubrian New Member

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    How are cops supposed to enforce the law if they don't know what's legal and what isn't?
     
  8. camiller

    camiller New Member

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    Given that this was the third time he was stopped by officers that did not know the law I'm less inclined to lean the LEO's way.

    Edit: And how exactly is exercising a legal right provoking? Since this had happened twice previously according to the linked story, including getting his gun impounded for five months, I'd say carrying the the recorder was provoked by previous bad LEO action as a defensive measure.

    I agree that most LEO are our friends, it's the 5% bad ones that are the biggest problem. And when those 5% take ill-informed actions it colors all LEO in a bad light. Especially since the LEO in question started the encounter with "Yo, Junior, what are you doing?", hardly professional.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2011
  9. wmille01

    wmille01 New Member

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    I can see the use for a recorder, actually seems like a good idea in general. I think it's horrible that the local cops didn't even know the law about carrying. Things could have gone down way differently then they did, if he just tried talking nicely to him things probably would have gone different.

    This guy does seem like he was looking for trouble...
     
  10. Daoust_Nat

    Daoust_Nat Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I am an ex South East Pennsylvanian. Having lived in suburban Philadelphia for 37 years I have had lots of contact with Philadelphia LEOs. Some were very reactionary like this guy, and some were great. One thing that always ran with them was if they thought you were bleeping with them, they were going to try to charge you with everything from jaywalking to armed insurrection. I had a friend get arrested for carrying a concealed deadly weapon after an argument with a mounted cop after a concert at the Spectrum. the deadly weapon was a 1.5" pocket knife they found when they frisked him. He was charged with the knife, disorderly conduct, public intoxication, resisting arrest without violence and a couple other things. The next morning he was released with a minor fine for disorderly conduct. He was even given back the deadly weapon. All of this stuff with this guy will probably blow over and go away.

    And I think the statement about the 15 min in the spotlight is correct.
     
  11. Jpyle

    Jpyle New Member

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    I have lived in Philly...was born and raised there. Philly is a tough town and the cops there have a thankless job and frequently die doing it. Now lets suppose you are on duty and see a guy walking down the street with a gun on his hip...what would YOU do. Was he carrying legally...yes. Do you need a CCW to open carry in Philly...yes. Did the cop know if he had one...no Do criminals have the balls to walk down the street with a gun in their hand in Philly...yes. Would said criminal shoot a cop on sight...yes. So now what would you do?

    Now, the cop overreacted and used coarse language...big deal! In the end Fiorino was not shot, not arrested, not charged with anything nor was he a victim of brutality...he was sent on his merry way...with his gun!

    Moral of this story is...if you're gonna play in the big leagues and put a gun on your hip to provoke a reaction from one of the most notorious police forces in the nation...in one of the most gun crime ridden cities run by an anti-gun Mayor and Chief of Police...be prepared for a little pain.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2011
  12. FaTmAn

    FaTmAn New Member

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    amen brother. If he wasnt looking to start something im a freaking princess.
     
  13. freefall

    freefall New Member

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    Are you really a princess? Can I ride your unicorn?:rolleyes:
     
  14. Davo45

    Davo45 New Member

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    +1

    Amen.

    If the guy had a CCW this whole incident would've been avoided if he'd been carrying CONCEALED in the first place. I don't know why anyone would want to carry openly in a city like Philadelphia, it isn't exactly known to be the most gun friendly city in these United States.

    I am a LEO and don't carry openly unless I'm in uniform. Why advertise the fact that you're armed, yes I know all about the ways to indicate somebody is carrying, but 85% +/- of the population don't.
     
  15. USMC-03

    USMC-03 New Member

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    Another question...we don't know what may have happened before the recorder was turned on. Maybe he waited until he had the cop good and pissed to push record?
     
  16. WDB

    WDB New Member

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    Good points panda, still I expect this guy was trolling looking for that one event that would get him his 15 minutes and a law suit. We will never know how many times he did this with no reaction are a better reaction from LEO's. No way to know but IMHO this is the expection not the rule. Again does truly nothing to help the cause.
     
  17. Gatekeeper

    Gatekeeper New Member

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    ...or it's possible that the guy is an activist, looking to educate and make LEO's aware of our legal right to open carry by peaceful, lawful demonstration of that right. The laws are already on the books, the officers weren't aware, or didn't care to make themselves aware of the law.
    Right or wrong, now they know. One good lawsuit or a bad publicity case for the Philly PD and I'm sure all of the officers will be made aware of the legalities of harassing people OC'ing

    Whether you believe the guy is right or wrong with his methods, or agree or disagree with the right to carry, open or otherwise, the fact remains that he was acting entirely within the laws of our state.
    Luckily for the carrier (and a few of the LEO's on scene), it's also not illegal to be an a$$hole:rolleyes:
     
  18. levelcross

    levelcross New Member

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    I also think it was a spotlight issue and he got way more than his 15 min. If everyone treated each other with respect, a lot of this would never happen. But today some people seem too eager to voice their opinion and damn the consequences, that things like this happen too often. As for the LEO's not knowing that open carry is legal, think about all that you learned in school and now can't remember.
    All in all when you make the decision to carry a weapon, with it comes great responsibility that needs to be at the forefront of your mind. Common sense is your best friend as it is easier to get out of jail then out of the morgue.
    I am not a fan of open carry other than at the workplace, if I was a BG the first one I would take out would be the guy who does open carry. So at my shop yes I open carry every where else concealed.
     
  19. Recon 173

    Recon 173 New Member

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    Guys like this, ones who want to prove a point, make it rough on other legal gun owners who have common sense. This guy's a moron. You don't carry a gun openly displayed in any large city because it will offend or excite some liberal loony. He should have all of his guns confiscated and his forehead should be branded with the letter "S" for stupid.
     
  20. rjd3282

    rjd3282 New Member

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    My God you people should listen to yourselves. You sound like a bunch of scared sheep. "He could offend somebody" Big f@cking deal let them be offended. I'm offended by the libs trying to deny me my rights and beliefs.

    I'm not doing the quote thing but someone even asked if it was worth dying to prove your point/for your rights. Hell yes it is, the cemetaries are full of men and women who died defending their rights.

    The founding fathers all believed it was worth proving with their lives. Some of you guys better man up before it's to late. You seem to be falling for the lib line of don't offend anyone. Aren't you all offended by what they are doing to this country? You should be.