Open carry and the second amendment

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by edteach, May 29, 2014.

  1. edteach

    edteach Member

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    I will start by saying you will be hard pressed to find another stronger proponent of the second amendment. But when I see several men wearing tactical vests and carrying ARs and AKs into a CMGs or other restaurant I cringe. All I see is gun people creating a situation where kids and adults are in fear. This does nothing, absolutely nothing to help with our image. Second, an establishment has every right to say, we don't want open carry guns here. CCW is a different story.

    Its like if someone wants to have porn, should they be allowed under the first amendment to have a Penthouse where kids and adults can see it when eating? No, if you have a copy in your back pocket under your shirt, its no ones business. When you out in public your in a place where you share real estate. I don't want to try to eat my burrito while someone is holding signs saying god loves dead GIs under the guise of freedom of speech. Like wise I can totally understand a family who may not even thing about guns being afraid of a group of men with ARs and AKs and tactical vests. Heck I would feel uncomfortable if it were a swat team with ARs sitting next to me with ARs hanging off their shoulders.

    I think that these gun people do us all a disservice by forcing establishments and businesses to ask them to leave. Then they even put up signs saying no guns allowed on premiss. In many states where its legal to carry it makes it a misdemeanor to carry CCW in that now marked no guns allowed business. Thanks open carry guys. You Fed it up for the rest of us.
     
  2. ScottA

    ScottA FAA licensed bugsmasher Lifetime Supporter

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    While I wouldn't compare it to porn, I agree that the open carry activists are not helping. IMO, OC is fine in places where people are used to seeing it. I OC'd often when living in Arizona. Most other places all it does is makes the general public uncomfortable and distrustful.
     

  3. eatmydust

    eatmydust New Member

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    When in Rome.

    As ScottA wrote, societal norms differ depending on locale. Those seen as wildly different from usual societal behavior are generally labeled dangerous.

    Nudity is a societal norm on a "nude beach", OC is a societal norm in areas of the west, south & southwest, usually limited to a handgun, people protesting and carrying banners are normal, where political events are being held.

    When the action does not seem to fit the context of the environment, people are labeled as wackos & weirdoes.

    Being seen as a wack job in protest of any belief is usually not beneficial to the cause, even if the cause is just.
     
  4. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Some people have an In Your Face attitude. It is about them not the cause. Usually they do more damage than good no matter what the cause is about.
     
  5. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    i totally believe in the open carry and concealed carry. but IMO, many of these idiots who sling an AR or AK over their shoulder to go in a coffee shop, or to the local Wally World, it's more about trying to make a statement.

    they do far more damage than good to the cause of our gun rights. i am a gun owner and if somebody is walking around with an AR or AK slung over their shoulder, it makes me nervous and concerned as well. i can just imagine what a non-gun owner might feel if confronted with the same situation.
     
  6. AIKIJUTSU

    AIKIJUTSU New Member

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    If somebody wants to draw attention to him/herself, then they should endeavor to make it favorable attention. In the case of OC, a handgun is not a big deal if the carrier is reasonably discreet in his/her demeanor while in a business establishment. Just don't do "stuff" that is likely to intimidate customers or employees. The strutting around, showing off crap will only give the people there a negative picture of the turkey who does it and gun owners in general.
    Also, carrying a rifle or a shotgun into a business would seldom be a desirable thing to do, when it is easy to leave it in the car.
     
  7. partdeux

    partdeux Well-Known Member

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    Here we go again.... what is this about the 139th thread on OC?

    My take on this particular incident, as soon as somebody feels the need to take a photo, it's probably not helpful...

    HOWEVER, it was the OC of a long gun into a MI district library that had the state supreme court rule that the library (and other municipal entities) can not write their own firearm rules/laws.

    Yes, it was a bit over the top, but lets not forget

    It does not say the right to keep and bear concealed arms, nor does it say the right to keep and bear pistols, it says the right to keep and bears arms shall not be infringed.

    Not everybody can qualify for a conceal license. Not everybody can purchase a pistol.

    I respect CP right to make their restaurant's criminal enterprise zones and I will respect that right and avoid potention confrontation with criminals at their private establishment.

    IF WE ALL STUCK TOGETHER and first did not go into those establishments, AND let them know why we don't go into those establishments, they would be forced to consider their policies. But, too many FUDDs will say, oh those rules don't apply to me, and I like their food anyway...
     
  8. edteach

    edteach Member

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    I could not disagree more. Freedom of speech does not allow me to have the latest porn anal sex photo on my tee shirt at a McDonald's. I have a right to view or have almost any porn I want but its not appropriate for some places. I have a right to join the West Boro Baptist church and hold signs saying god loves dead GIs if I was so stupid to be inclined. That does not give me the right to bring signs into a business and cause a disturbance in other patrons.

    Same with open carry, if you live in Wyo, where its common to do so its not a problem but to carry an AR to a Wendys when another family is just trying to by ice cream for the kids you have to admit that your all about waving your Johnson in other peoples faces then helping advance our cause. All you do is get CCW along with open carry banned in some places. I can think of no reason to carry an AR or Ak or any rifle or pistol openly into a restaurant, and if you cant get a CCW I don't know you should have the right to OC.

    When Starbucks said no guns, it was because of the open carry not the CCW guns that caused them to act. Lets be frank, you have a business and 75 percent or more of that business comes from non gun owners. Now you have a fringe few carrying ARs with Tactical vests looking like some wana be SWAT team and you think the non gun owners should suck it up? What do you expect the business to do? If you have a business that is near a military base, and you have the nuts from WBC coming in with signs that say god loves dead GIs would you say but they have a right to say what ever they want and we respect that here or would you say, they have a right to say what ever they want and they can take it outside and away from our business. This is a place to get coffee not face the nation.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2014
  9. AIKIJUTSU

    AIKIJUTSU New Member

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    I strongly agree. And IMHO, somebody who does that is likely mentally marginal at best, and maybe shouldn't even own a firearm. (Now watch out for the verbal assault that comment will draw).
    :D
     
  10. edteach

    edteach Member

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    I agree with you, You can not even open carry loaded at a gun show. How about if Starbucks says, OK you can open carry but we have to put a zip tie through the bolt to make it inoperable? Same as a gun show. How many wing nuts will go for that?
     
  11. edteach

    edteach Member

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    Someone should start a #notonemoregunlaw hash tag.
     
  12. chloeshooter

    chloeshooter New Member

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    I've said this before on another post....if one of thee ya-hoos comes walking into the restaurant where I am eating, there is a very good chance they are dead on the ground before they have an opportunity to tell everyone they are just 'exercising their rights'.


    and please, don't anyone start spewing garbage about Davey Crockett carrying his rifle around and if it's good enough for him it's good enough for us. This is not Jerusalem or Beirut. Concealed carry offers us the ability to exercise our 2A rights and I agree with others, putting our guns in their faces and telling people to like it is not what I am about at all.
     

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  13. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    A library is public property and does not fall under the same rules as private property. If I don't like the color of your shirt on my private property I can order you off my property. If you chose not to leave I can call the police and have you removed.
    Restaurants are private property. They can set a dress code. Demand that you leave your gun at home. A restaurant can refuse to serve you for any reason and most restaurants have a sign stating that.

    OC on private property where you denying a person or corporation of their due income is not helping any of us. You make all gun owners look like a jack ass. You are giving the state legislature no reason to repeal OC laws and every reason to pass laws denying you the right to OC.

    If you want to have an OC rally do it on public property where firearms are permitted, not on private property.
     
  14. AIKIJUTSU

    AIKIJUTSU New Member

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    I think I have commented on this analogy on another similar thread or forum, but here goes:
    This reminds me of the old Bruce Li and similar oriental martial arts movies of the 70's. There was a theater in Indianapolis that specialized in showing those cornball flicks for a while. It ended up with the lobby being full of clowns strutting around, intentionally bumping into other people ("I don' step aside fer nobody"), grinding their 2 "magic" knuckles into the walls, with an "ain't I bad" sneer on their stupid faces. Many of them were not even there to see the movie, nor were they even true martial arts practitioners, they just wanted to fantasize about other people admiring/fearing them. It got so bad that the paying customers quit going there, and the theater finally closed down.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2014
  15. rjd3282

    rjd3282 New Member

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    Your right there are far more gun homicides here than in Jerusalem. So that argument is not a good one. Chicago is far more dangerous than Iraq or Afghanistan. If you want to go by the numbers you really should be carrying long gun here.
     
  16. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I have STRONG opinions on the subject. I might respond when I am sober.


    no offense and none taken
     
  17. Franklin1995

    Franklin1995 New Member

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    "Shall not be infringed." Seems pretty simple to me... but hey, what do I know? I'm only 19! :p
     
  18. ScottA

    ScottA FAA licensed bugsmasher Lifetime Supporter

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    It's not about rights. It's about responsibilities.
     
  19. hawkguy

    hawkguy Well-Known Member

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    yes, thank you & well said. we have rights, and we need to be responsible in the use of those rights....THIS type of OC is not responsible imo.
     
  20. hawkguy

    hawkguy Well-Known Member

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    well said, axxe. this sums up my thoughts very well also. and i am very certain, if this continues....it WILL have a negative effect for gun owners overall.

    no more from me on this thread, i have been around this block before....:p