Open Carry and the Police

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by AFerree, Nov 3, 2012.

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  1. AFerree

    AFerree New Member

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    Ok, so I have been watching so videos on YouTube about people who open carry and they get stopped by the police. It seems like every time the police ask for identification the open carriers plead the 5th and won't show ID. Any particular reason? Just asking out of curiosity.
     
  2. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    I don't understand why people are so stupid and want to waste the officer's time with such antics.

    I don't know what the people are trying to prove.
     

  3. jon1992d

    jon1992d New Member

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    I think it would just upset someone to get stopped and asked that because there open carrying amd thats there right. Some people are very passionate about open carry and in a way I can understand them doing that but its just easier to show your i.d. and be on your way, unless ofcourse it becomes an everyday thing, in that case i would get a little ticked.
     
  4. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    probably they are just idiots who are trying to assert their rights so they can make a statement. keyword is idiot! these idiots are more about trying to show some LEO in a bad light and trying to drum up symphathy than truly concerned with gun owners rights. i see my best recourse for an officer who violates my rights is an attorney, not YouTube!
     
  5. USEBOTHHANDS

    USEBOTHHANDS New Member

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    no, no reason. some are bein antagonistic, smart a$$e$, and some are just exercisin their rights to open carry.

    in states where people can open carry, and the locals are knowledgeable, an OCer is not looked @ twice. BUT, in states where OCin is on the books, but there hasn't been a person to OC in like 20 years, it starts problems with the public.

    PD is called because someone is OCin. PD has to go and investigate because the report didn't say "OCin." it said "someone walkin down the street with a gun." the OCer knows that he/she can OC due to law, but some of your newer PD rooks (and some older ones) don't know that the state is an OC state. NOW the problems start.

    as for "not showin an ID," it's a hot button topic. in all reality, you do not have to show ID to a public officer. IF YOU HAVE COMMITTED NO CRIME, or are not bein suspected of a crime, then they have no right to ID you, a US citizen. BUT, HERE IS THE KICKER...........even though OC is legal in a particular state, public officers still feel the need to ID you and "run" your license in order to "verify that you are not a criminal, you are who you are, and that you can legally possess a firearm (which they can't verify this information anyway)." where they think they have the right to ID you is the report that got them out to visit you. that's what they use, "the report of someone with a gun," makes you suspect. BUT, WHY WOULDJU BE SUSPECT if OC is on the books, the law, LEGAL.

    SOOOOOOOOOOO, you can be an a$$ hat, and make it hard for them, and NOT show them your ID, which is legal in most cases (UNLESS STATE LAW SAYS OTHERWISE - ie, state law says that a public officer has the right to request ID from anyone in that state). OR, you can be cooperative, and polite, and do what the officer advises you to do. it just depends on how beligerent you wanna be.

    if the public officer(s) wanna take you to jail for OCin, then they are, and they will. REGARDLESS if it's against the law for them to. you will go to jail until it is presented to the DA, then he/she will decide to prosecute you or not. if he/she knows the law, then he/she won't.
     
  6. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    A lot of these knuckleheads are ascribing to the anarchist philosophy called "Sovereign Citizens". They do not recognize the legitimacy of our Government at all. I find it humorous they invoke rights they do not even believe in.

    Identifying yourself has nothing to do with the 5th Amendment. Identifying your self has nothing to do with self incrimination.

    IMHO, the vast majority of these people are attention starved spoiled brats looking for their 15 minutes of fame. What they usually get is a few months in the pokey to sell their BS to some other criminals.
     
  7. USEBOTHHANDS

    USEBOTHHANDS New Member

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    oh, i forgot to add............here in LA, i believe that when you sign for your driver's license, you have an obligation to identify yourself to a public officer. i know drivin is an obligation, not a right.

    some folks say they weren't drivin, so the officer has no right to stop. BUT, you still have a driver's license.
     
  8. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    UBH and Robo both elaborated on exactly as i was thinking. thank you both for saying it much better than i did.

    also if a person see's you OC a pistol or firearm and they make a call to LE about it, i am pretty sure they didn't know either it was legal to OC. a LEO has a duty to investigate the report and is just doing his job. he comes up on someone doing OC, he is somewhat leary, because he see's a person with a firearm first and foremost. he wants to go home at the end of his shift to his family. and if showing him an ID eases his fear, then what is the harm done? none i can see.

    remember most LEO's are just people too who happen to have a job that requires them to wear a badge and gun everyday. yes there are a few who abuse this, but they are fewer and far between and will end up getting themselves in plenty of trouble one day, (Karma is a vicious *****!).
     
  9. partdeux

    partdeux Well-Known Member

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    Rights not exercised will wither away to apathy.

    State law trumps. If it's a stop and ID state, then you can be stopped. If it's not then LEO can be subjected to civil rights lawsuit... as is taking place in MI right now.
     
  10. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    I worked up a well thought out response. Then, after thinking a moment about the subject... How some people just happen to have a video camera running while being confronted by police... In some cases for carrying an AR with a freaking drum mag....

    I open carry in LA, when I carry. I've yet to have any talks with police, and I've especially never walked around video recording any foot journeys that I've partaken in.

    I've come to the conclusion most of these people are douche bags and I would prefer they be silenced.
     
  11. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Since you are apparently from Louisiana and I am not I will stick to Texas specific scenarios.

    You "OC" a hand gun in Texas, off your property and outside of your vehicle, that is called Unlawfully Carrying a Weapon (or UCW). Unless you are a Peace Officer, open carry (of handguns) is NOT legal in Texas. One year in jail and $1000 fine.

    Fail to Identify is multifaceted in Texas;

    Refusal to gives ones name, home address and Date of Birth when lawfully arrested is a Class C Misdemeanor ($200 fine only). To do so when you are a "fugitive from justice" kicks that up to a Class B (6 months in jail).

    Giving false information about your identity when you are arrested, detained or the officer has good reason to believe you are a witness to a crime is a Class B. Do so while a "fugitive from justice" and it gets kicked up to a Class A (1 year in jail).

    What does it take to be considered a "fugitive from justice"? Any warrant for your arrest including that unpaid speeding ticket from 8 years ago.

    What about OC of long guns? OC a slung long gun in most parts of Texas and you will hardly get a second glance. OC your AK in downtown Dallas (or Houston or Austin or Ft. Worth or any other major metropolitan area) and that WILL cause a ruckus. People will be alarmed and call 911. Then you get into a statute called "Disorderly Conduct" or DOC. Display a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm and you have violated this statute. This is only a Class C Misdemeanor, but it is what gets the ball rolling for the Fail to ID again.

    Oh, and try the "I was just exercising my rights and walking down the street. I did not mean to alarm anyone". Not going to gain much traction with that. Walking down the street from your house to the dove field to go hunting? Sure, no problem. That is not a manner calculated to alarm. Carry your AR from your trunk to the gunshop to have it worked on? Not a manner calculated to alarm. Walk through downtown or the shopping mall with your slung tacticool SKS? Yeah, that is done to draw attention to yourself and your "cause" by alarming the sheeple. You are an idiot who is harming our gun rights (mine included so I kind of take it personally).
     
  12. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    Something I'd like to point out here in support of your observation.

    It's very likely that the LEO is NOT responding to a call of "There's a well dressed gentleman strolling along the sidewalk with a holstered firearm in plain sight"...

    It's more likely someone that called the police, screaming "oh my God this guy has some huge scary looking gun and he's walking down the street, I don't know what he's going to do, oh my God please send help!"

    So yeah. The popo is already expecting the worst.
     
  13. partdeux

    partdeux Well-Known Member

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    Michigan Open Carry strongly recommends anytime one open carries they have some sort of recorder going. After the Birmingham MI Open carry case, it really opened my eyes to the extend the PD would circle the wagons around their lying officer, who did it again a few weeks later, this time while it was being recorded. Luckily, the jury believed the witnesses over the LEO and sent the case packing.

    I have a recorder on my phone that automatically streams to the web.
     
  14. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    exactly Trip! they have a report of someone with a firearm, and most anyone's reaction is to expect and prepare for the worst case scenario. to not do so would be foolish and possibly dangerous.

    and in response to your comment about the video. i think they do it in hope of a confrontation to try and assert their rights and cause a ruckus. IMO again, has nothing to do with gun owners rights, and quite possible as Robo stated, about their 15 minutes of fame and glory! these idiots IMO are more detrimental to our gun rights than helpful.

    being within your legal rights isn't always the same thing as being smart and using your head and common sense.
     
  15. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Very interesting! I spent 30+ years in LE and am still doing it. I was a LEO for 26 years in CO, 6 years in AK, and now in AL. CO is an open carry state as a result of the state Constitution which specifically makes CC unlawful. The courts have changed this, but when the state constitution was ratified only 'dastardly' people hid their guns, real men did not (1876);). AK and AL are both open carry BUT many LEO's in AL think they can enforce their 'law' not statutory law and it has come back to bite them.:eek:
    I find it hard to believe that Texas, of all places, has laws against OC!!!:confused:
    You would think that a state with a rich history of the 'frontier' would not have laws which violate the RTKABA's!!!!
    I guess those in Texas need to get to work to chance this. As I said above OC in public is not advisable and defies common sense, but it is your RIGHT!!!!:mad:
    That said, there is a problem with how LE is trained to handle these contacts. I went out of my way to train all those I was task to do so to not be 'afraid' of GUNS, but to consider the person and circumstances first.
    We have an up hill battle in this area because the 'new' breed of cops are taught to be almost paranoid of any gun in the interest of 'officer safety'!:(
     
  16. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    thank you Jim for your viewpoint as a LEO. very well said and i am sure many of us here agree with your opinion.
     
  17. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I know there are exceptions, but most of the people who open carry in a city or town are just pathetic "little men" that want to feel "Macho" and feel ten feet tall when they strap on their gun.

    If you don't believe me, just look at the weapons they usually carry.

    .44 Magnum, .45ACP, 10MM, .45 Colt.

    BIG guns for "little" men.

    They don't like concealed carry, because the world can't see the "Big
    Iron"
    on their hip.:(:(
     
  18. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    that may or may not be true. but i can honestly say i don't own a Glock!:eek:
     
  19. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    not for me it doesn't! i have learned that there are much better choices and options than a Glock.
     
  20. BullseyePrecision

    BullseyePrecision New Member

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    congratulations on that :rolleyes:
     
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