Open carrier in California being harrassed by cops

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by kwikrnu, Oct 21, 2011.

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  1. kwikrnu

    kwikrnu New Member

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    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9Gr4sc5miw]Ontario PD Harassment at Wendys 10-18-11 1500hrs.MOV - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdWvLqHwkDI]AR-15 California Open Carry Litter Pick-up Ontario PD 10-17-11.MOV - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCJTrgupxqM]AR-15 California Open Carry Ontario PD 10-13-11 1300hrs.MOV - YouTube[/ame]
     
  2. JD1969

    JD1969 New Member

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    Cali sucks this much is well known, it's the only state worse than where I live. While I certainly respect the 2nd amendment and the person in the vids rights, why would anyone carry an unloaded firearm? He might as well be carring a bat or a rock, it is certainly not for SD. IMO the guys who open carry, get the cops on film (who most times are just responding to call) and then put the vids up on youtube are attention whores and many times end up making all gun owners and CCP people look bad. The LEO's in the vid did nothing wrong IMO, they were polite yet firm and simply were doing their job.
     

  3. JD1969

    JD1969 New Member

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    The vids are a good argument for CC over OC. The guy is walking around with an AR slung over his shoulder picking up trash. Imagine all the 911 calls he is causing (he is in Cali after all). If he were allowed to CC, nobody would know and the LEO's could then concentrate on finding the real bad guys. I agree that a right not exercised is a right lost, but I just don't see how the LEO's responding to a call of an armed person constitutes harassment. In all three vids the LEO's just check the status of the weapon and let him go on about his day.
     
  4. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    "I don't consent to search... I don't consent to search..."

    While I will support the second amendment, and do... There are still state laws, and whether or not these laws are in violation is up to us to vote for the right people and the right legislation to do away with them. We as a people, citizens of this country, and residents of our respective states, are NOT to violate the laws that have been placed on our burden.

    Cali laws say that a law enforcement officer can stop you and check to make sure that you are in compliance with their state laws. I feel this is a violation of his 2A rights, but it is the law of the land where he lives and if he doesn't like it then he can do his part to change it, and since I personally don't see where he acts like too much of a jackass; in my opinion these videos are okay, or he can move.

    In my home state, it is the law that you must present your CC permit upon request to any LEO. I don't like it myself, but I go with it, at least it's not that much of a burden, just a minor inconvenience. Most around here don't check anyway, if they see you carrying with a holster and clean clothes, they assume (rightfully in most cases) that you are legit. Now if they see a black man walking around a neighborhood known for drugs, wearing ragged clothes, and rocking the Mexican carry, then yeah, they will check that guy.

    About the guy in the video being an attention hound, I think he is. He's packing an AR to pick up litter, who the hell does that? An AR to walk the poodle I can understand, he needs something to make him look a little macho.

    To detain someone to check that their weapon is unloaded I think is a bit crazy. You can tell at a glance that there is no mag in the AR, and about 2 glances that there is no mag in the XD. Sure there may be one in the chamber, but at that point who really gives a flying Eff. And if he's walking a damn poodle, he's obviously not out raping and pillaging.
     
  5. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    If he is building a case for his 2A rights being violated (IMO they are), but the local LEO's are enforcing local law, then he is in for a long hard legal battle.

    Hasn't it become obvious that some people in power (cops, governors, POTUS, town mayors) don't give a damn about the constitution?

    I think it's a lost cause, but I give him kudos for trying. It will be cheaper, easier and likely much more satisfying to simply move.

    No state, especially Cali, is likely to say that their laws are violating the constitution. They (state legislators) worked to make their bed so that they can lie in it and feel morally superior. Are they dead wrong? Particularly in this case? Oh hell yeah! Is this one guy going to really make a difference? Not a chance. I would save my money on the legal fees and just move.
     
  6. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    Was he accused of committing a crime? Or was he detained (lawfully but wrongfully IMO) to make sure that he was in compliance with state laws?

    I heard no cops saying that he was actually suspected of committing a crime, granted my hearing isn't what it used to be, and this guy's video quality sucks.

    I roll through road blocks in my area all the time (our neighboring county is dry as a powder house), where they check my DL, registration, and insurance, and usually ask me where I'm coming from and where I'm going. Does this piss me off? Yes. Do I tell them it's none of their business where I've been because they aren't my mama? A couple times, and they laugh at me. I know that I am not under suspicion of committing a crime, and that they are enforcing the laws and trying to keep drunks off the road (dry county neighbor, beer store right on the county line). These don't care where you've been or where your going, they want you to talk so they can sniff for alcohol.

    Look, let me make it clear, I don't agree with the BS where firearms are concerned in Cali, and I hate that their citizens have to deal with those laws when the criminals aren't being stopped. I feel it's unconstitutional. But I also don't think the LEO's did anything legally wrong according to their state laws, and he's better off leaving that state.
     
  7. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    Here's where we are in disagreement then. Yes they can. I don't think it's right, but nothing will be done until the state laws are changed, unless by some chance he, or a large group is able to get the US SC involved to strike it down. That has been tried... What's one more bug on the windshield?

    He should just move. I don't like it, and in that, you and I do agree that it's messed up. But that's really his only hope.
     
  8. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    Don't you see? The ones who make the rules of the game always win! That is where we as citizens need to make our rules as we see fit, and do away with those people who don't listen to our citizenry.
     
  9. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    CA politicians have long trampled on the 2nd Amendment rights of CA citizens.

    When CA polititicians get scared they pass gun control laws. In 1967 CA politicians were scared of the Black Panthers. They passed the Mulford Act outlawing the public carry of loaded guns: CA governor Ronald Reagan signed the Mulford act into law.

    Recently CA politicians got scared of unloaded handguns carried in public; they passed a bill outlawing same. CA governor Jerry Brown signed that bill into law.

    IMO: CA politicians will soon grow scared of folks carrying long guns in public.


    Timeline of CA gun control:

    Time Line of California Firearms Laws - Calguns Wiki
     
  10. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    Pretty much. That's what it's going to take, is a straw to break the camels back. The sad thing about it is this, these gun control politicians are being voted in, and kept in, by anti gun civilians who are out-voting the gun owners.

    I don't know what the numbers are, and it may not actually be the case for all I know, but it stands to reason right?
     
  11. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Is it California law that open carry is legal, but only if the firearm is unloaded?


    Are you allowed to have loaded magazines on your person?
     
  12. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    Last I heard, that's the way it was, but they are talking about banning OC all together if they haven't done it already.

    Maybe CA357 would chime in, he's always up on the CA laws.

    And yes, they are/or were allowed to have magazines or loose ammo on their person at the same time.
     
  13. Jeepergeo

    Jeepergeo New Member

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    :eek:

    Imagine having to consent to a search before entering a church, or having to have a conversation with a friend approved before having that conversation...Would anyone stand for that?:confused:

    Then why should we have to stoop to a search in order to exercise our 2nd Amendment rights? I admire this guy for what he is doing, and it sickens me that our police are so eager to violate our rights.

    I've stopped giving to NRA because they seem to be so gung ho on cops, yet cops are the vehicle for violation of our 2nd Amendment rights. Cops want to carry concealed to protect their life and property, while at the same time pushing for laws to restrict the rights of law abiding citizens. The defrocked Orange County, CA Sheriff, now a felon, was allowed to continue concealed carry long into his appeal, appeals held after he was convicted as a felon.

    The Bill of Rights, at least the first ten amendments, were essential to passage of the Constitution...without the first ten Amendments, the Bill of Rights, the Constitution would never have been ratified and we'd be ruled by the Queen.
     
  14. Jeepergeo

    Jeepergeo New Member

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    Governor Wilson just this month signed a law banning Open Carry, effective 2012. That law basically makes it impossible for most folks to Open Carry unloaded or to Concealed Carry loaded or unloaded (unless you're a judge, DA, or cop...an interesting group that just loves to go after folks that are compelled to carry to protect themselves, but due to the irrational CCW procedures can never get a CCW permit).
     
  15. dragunovsks

    dragunovsks New Member

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    Im sorry but carrying an empty firearm is stupid, whats the point. If someone grabs you and you only have one hand to deploy and and load your weapon then your screwed. Carrying an empty pistol is like carrying a $300 hammer because all its good for pistol whipping your attacker.

    Its hearing about stupid useless laws like this that make me glad i live in indiana and not commie-fornia. Seriously whose side are the lawmakers in cali on, seems like every law is designed to help criminals, i mean wtf?

    I carry concealed in indiana even tho open is an option and yes my gun is loaded, locked and cocked at all times otherwise whats the point. Its perfectly legal to do so here.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2011
  16. chopkick

    chopkick New Member

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    This guy is nothing more than a media whore dumbass. Whether we like it or not the laws in Cali are specific and this is the last place that is going to move in a constitutional direction. Get a CCW and get on with it. As we all have seen, carrying openly only draws attention to ones self. I get the impression that this guy is anti- law enforcement anyway. The only statement this guy has made is that he's a nutjob and should apply for SSI at the nearest Social Security office.
     
  17. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    +1

    He's as nutty at that guy in TN who openly carried the AK-47 pistol and got his concealed carry license revoked. :D
     
  18. chopkick

    chopkick New Member

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    Why should he "get a ccw and get on with it"? He is open carrying as allowed by law. Maybe he does not want to pay the fees. Maybe he doesn't want to wait. Maybe he feels open carry is a deterrent.

    First of all, it doesn't cost much at all to obtain a CCW (roughly $200) and my wait time was 2 weeks. And what good is open carry if the firearm is empty. So that blows the deterrent theory away. Gang Bangers such as the Crips, Bloods, Surenos, MS 13 and any other wannabe hood rats would eat this guys lunch if they saw him carrying an empty gun openly. They carry too! If he really wants to exercise his constitutional right, then he should carry locked and loaded and refuse to even be "harassed" by law enforcement. I would like to see how far that would get him.


    I wonder why he is anti-cop? Would you be anti-cop if cops violated your enumerated fundamental civil right to bear arms?

    He is carrying openly in a state that does not allow it! DUH!!! Is it that hard for you to see? When in ROME.....


    Why name call and bash? How do you know the man is a "nutjob"? I'll venture to guess you have no inside information. It is clear that man who exercises his rights inspite of harrassment by government actors is much braver than you. By your words you show yourself to be incapable of standing up for an enumerated fundamental civil right.

    You are right, I had no right to call him a nutjob. The shrinks will make that determination when law enforcement eventually places a 72 hour psych hold on him. "I Don't Consent To Search" repeat, repeat, repeat. Braver than myself, who knows. I would like to think more foolish than me because I would venture to say that there is no way in hell that the Ontario Police Dept. will ever even give this guy a CCW, based on his behavior. Myself, I would give up my Driver's License before my carry permit. I believe with all my being in the constitution but you have to pick your battles and the appropriate battleground and southern Ca. isn't it. Can you imagine how many crimes are committed in southern Ca. on a daily basis with firearms? Law Enforcement would be derelict in their duty if they didn't check him and his weapon. That is common sense.


    I find your use of MOLON LABE in your signature line to be repulsive. Do you have any idea what that means? Hacopien knows...

    Repulsive?!? Well maybe you or anyone else should try and "Come And Get Them" and you will find out in very short order. How's that?
     
  19. TekGreg

    TekGreg Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Guys, California is not a "Shall Issue" state. It is a "Can Issue" state, and if you do not have a judge's order to obtain a permit or are friends with a mayor of a city or it's police chief, you will NOT be issued a CCW in California in most counties. This is from living in several counties for a quarter of a century and trying in ALL of them and their adjoining counties. I have heard there are a few counties that have changed since I have left, but you still have to have all your ducks in a row.

    Secondly, you have to remember that there is a split in the politics of the police station. Most beat cops from sergeant on down want civilians to be able to defend themselves and have no problem with them being armed if they are trained and follow the laws. Lieutenant on up has started playing politics to further their career, and chiefs tend to take a very anti-gun position for politicking if they know what's good for them. They will never advance with a pro-gun position, so every time you hear about the police taking an anti-gun stance, you'll notice that it ALWAYS comes from the chief and there will be no quotes from street cops or the police organizations. Be very aware of this before accusing "cops" as a whole of a political position, because oft-times one is not representative of the other group, but people wrongly lump them together.
     
  20. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Don't hold your breath. The federal appeals court for CA has never in recent times ruled in favor of gun rights.
     
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