One step up

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by kaido, Jan 7, 2012.

  1. kaido

    kaido New Member

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    Know I just started shooting, but even before I have my FAC/PAL I've always been looking into getting an AR platform. The reason behind this is I'll admit, partly due to the cool factor. But it's also the fact that from what I've heard, the .223 doesn't have a whole wack load of kick to it and being a new shooter, the seems like a good center fire starter. Before anyone asks why I don't just save up and buy an AR/AR type rifle, I'm not exactly one to want to wait longer then needed to buy something to enjoy. Also living in Canada they have all kinds of restriction on any rifle that's on an AR platform. One of which is that you have to be on a proper range to be legally allowed to discharge it and have to fill out paper work each and every time the dang thing leaves your house regardless of where it goes and if I understood properly, have to pay a certain amount each time or per year. So that's out of the question for me.

    Just have a couple of quick question, none are really gun related, more ammunition related really.

    First one is, how much more kick does a .223 have vs a 7mm Rem mag? (only centerfire rifle I've shot)

    What's the farthest shot you've made with that caliber?

    What a good budget gun in this caliber? (let's say about 4-500 if possible, also have a preference for bolt action)

    And would you guys suggest a different caliber to start out with?

    Reason I'm asking is that I'm pretty new to shooting but have shot some harder hitters then a .22LR and looking to go a little bit bigger. Also looking for something that won't totally slaughter the wallet of a student with a part time job.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2012
  2. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    .223 compared to 7mm Rem Mag? In comparison, the .223 has NO recoil. 3-400 yards is not unreasonable. Budget bolt gun? Savage comes to mind. .223 is not a power house round, but with proper bullets it can be very effectiveon game up to medium deer (with proper placement). Ammo availability (at least in the US) is very good to excellent.
     

  3. Snakedriver

    Snakedriver New Member

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    I shoot both 5.56/.223 in an AR and 7mm Rem. Mag. in a bolt gun. My 16" mid-length AR is virtually recoiless. Can't say that about the 7mm though! ;)

    When I was in the Army I think they taught us that the effective range of the AR is 450 yards. I think with heavy bullets today they go farther than that, but for me I consider my AR a 300 yard gun. Anything further than that I need to shoot and I'll be reaching for another gun in a bigger caliber.
     
  4. kaido

    kaido New Member

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    I know the .223 isn't a very heavy round and isn't all that great for reach out and touch far distances, and that's not to big of an issue either since the range I use only goes out to 500yards and I don't think that I'll be trying that anytime soon for a couple reasons.

    But I was actually looking at a savage ( AXIS XP) on a whole sale site up here thats close to 330.00 and comes
    with a scope. (don't remember the scope brand but is a 3-9x40)

    As for hunting any size game with a .223, Canada made it so you can only use it for pests and other small game. So as of right now I would only be able to use it on something up to the size of a coyote or maybe a wolf, not to sure there so I'll check that out. But I'm sure it's up to a coyote since I haven't seen any Wolfe around my part of Canada. For those of you wondering what the smallest deer hunting calibre we can use is, it's anything over .23 caliber, so that puts the smallest legal round to hunt with (in Canada) at a .243.

    As for it being low recoil, I didn't think it was that low. I was originally going to compare it to the .22LR but figured that would be a little out of place since their two totally different rounds. Kind of glad there's not a lot of recoil behind them though.....can talk my girl into shooting it a couple of time so I don't feel like a total bum to storing it at her place. Haha
     
  5. Snakedriver

    Snakedriver New Member

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    You should understand that the 5.56/.223 caliber is mostly recoiless in an AR because of the way it is designed to use the recoil to operate the bolt. A bolt action rifle in the same caliber will have more recoil. Not as much as a 7mm Rem. Mag. by any means, but more than an AR type rifle.
     
  6. kaido

    kaido New Member

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    Well I was pretty sure that a bolt action would have some more recoil then an AR or any similar platform. Even between mine and my girls .22 there's a small difference. But like you said, it shouldn't be as much as the 7mm that me and her each got to shoot a round from.
     
  7. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    goofing around on the m60 range with our m16A2 in the army we were getting regular hits n 1000meter popups. no clue what weight bullets we were using. prolly had about as much punch at that distance as a 22lr.
     
  8. kaido

    kaido New Member

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    Even if it only hit as hard as a .22LR at the range, I'm sure it would be enough to make the person(s) they hit have seconds thoughts about coming any close enough for them to do some real damage.

    But that's still a pretty a lot farther the. What I hear most people go for, even though it was just messing around and having fun. But since my range only goes out to 500 yards, I'm sure with some practice I could hit a steel plate of fair size at that distance.
     
  9. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    yeah its like shooting 380acp at 200yard targets. lots of fun but totally impractical heh. that was one helluva a fun range day
     
  10. kaido

    kaido New Member

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    That truly would of been. I'm still waiting to save up the funds for a .223 bolt gun (still thinking savage, but the axis instead).
     
  11. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    You need to remember, A target rifle and a hunting rifle are not equal. Target rifles & Varmint rifles uaually have a heavier barrel, better trigger, and are made for distance shooting. A standard rifle will have a tappered barrel to save weight. That barrel will heat up faster then a heavy barrel. 500 yards is an aweful lot to expect from a $300.00 .223 rifle. Best of luck.
     
  12. kaido

    kaido New Member

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    I knew that different versions of the same rifle would have different barrel types and that a heavier barrel would help with long range accuracy and not heat up near as quick as a tapered barrel. I'm also not expecting it to have a 2inch group each and every time when (attempting to) shoot out to 500yards. Most of my plinking and varmint/coyote hunting would be done under 200yards. But like almost anyone out there, I like to challenge not only my "toys" but myself and see just how far things can reach. So in my mind, even if I was able to hit a 1x1' steel plate maybe half the time at 500yards I'd be happy. I'm basically just looking for a sub-MOA (center fire) rifle that's not going to make my wallet want to run and hide.
     
  13. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    It is not only the barrel contour, but the action. The Edge/Axis is a fine beginners rifle, but w/ the rifle in .223, you are truely expecting to much. 300 yards, that is more realistic. For 500 yards a .308 would be better suited and is availible in the axis. You could still hammer coyotes, and larger game if you choose. Even then, that is a long shot. Your goal would be to hit a 2" target at 100 yards consistantly to even have a chance at a 12"x12" at 500. Again, I wish you the best of luck.
     
  14. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Savage uses a 1:9 twist rate so it will handle bullets in the 60-70 grn range. A lot of mfgs use a 1:12 which does not handle heavier bullets well. For what you want to do JP is probably right and you need to step up. If you do not load the .223 is cheaper to shoot for target practice followed by the 308 since there is a lot of fmj out there in those 2 calibers. There are some other calibers to consider. .243, 257 Roberts and 25-06 come to mind. I saw a new Marlin X7 at a show recently in 25-06 and it was priced at $300.
     
  15. kaido

    kaido New Member

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    I know 500 yards is really pushing it for this rifle. To me that's pushing it for anything chambered in .223 since its a fairly small round and would get pushed around by the wind. When it comes to hitting a 2" target multiple times with this rifle it shouldn't be to hard. From what I've read guys have been able to get groups as small as 3/4" at 100yards.

    The .308 would be better for taking long shots and larger game then coyotes, but it would also cost more since in my area I can buy a box (.223) of American Eagle for about 11 buck. I also wouldn't do as much damage to the pelt since I plan on looking around to see if people in my are buy them.

    You know, I was thinking about getting a .243 since a friend of mine goes out hunting and has one as well as a 7mm Rem Mag. But to me the .223 just has that cool factor in my mind. It's also more feasible for the reason your thinking, as of now I don't reload at all.u


    EDIT~ I'm also looking for something that's light on recoil as my girl isn't exactly a total gun person, so I figure if I slowly work up a larger caliber she'll be able to get used to hard hitting one. Also would be used mainly on small game and that's about it, so don't wan to be buying a larger caliber I only fire off furring hunting season.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2012
  16. fatmidgets

    fatmidgets New Member

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    I was having the same exact problem your having now. All I had ever shot was a .22, and a few pistols. But, I wanted to make that step up, so I bought a remington 700 ADL in .223. It has a basic synthetic stock, a 24" barrel, and a factory mounted 4x12x40 scope came on it. I shot 220 rounds in a period of 3-4 hours at 100 yards, (along with my friends .308) and it kicks like a little girl! I mean next to nothing. I didn't do anything to it, except put a cartridge holder on the stock, and attach a bipod. Shot after shot my Arm was left in perfect condition. I only weigh 150 pounds, and it was a dream to shoot at the range.
     
  17. kaido

    kaido New Member

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    That's actually some good news, I weigh pretty much the same.
    Considering those, from what I read, are the only two rifles you've shot what where your thoughts on the .223?
     
  18. fatmidgets

    fatmidgets New Member

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    It's a good rifle. Ammo is abundant and cheap, It's very accurate, and like I said... "Kicks like a little girl". It just has very little recoil. You and your girlfriend should have no problem. And as far as hunting coyotes, Hornady superformance varmint is about as lethal as it gets. I haven't killed a coyote yet, but the ballistic tip feels like a knife blade, and a 53gr. Bullet tops out at I wanna say 3470 fps.
     
  19. kaido

    kaido New Member

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    Damn, that's actually a bonus. All the ammunition I was looking at is 55grs so it wouldn't be the big of a drop going down to 53grns. I might start looking around local shops and checking some sites for the prices on that round. Also hope that the rifle I (eventually) pick up sends them down range accurately.
     
  20. fatmidgets

    fatmidgets New Member

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    I just shoot fmjs, and when I use the hornadys, my rifle shoots just high and to the left at 100yds. Nothing a few easy clicks won't fix. And good luck. I hope you find what your looking for.