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Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by canebrake, Aug 27, 2010.
ONE MILE KILL SHOT - Military.com
That same program on History had the tale of the guy with the longest confirmed kill with a .308 and it was TWICE as incredible, in our collective minds around the shop, as to the overall level of Norse God like Marksmanship. It was AMAZING!!
One thing is certain, the US Military turns out some of the greatest long range shooters on the planet. And I am kind of sure it has SOMETHING to do with all the availablity of weapons in our culture.
The longest confirmed shot at just over a mile and a half (if I remember correctly) was made by a Brit that broke the record held by a Canadian, no? But, I also believe both men were trained in the US. Maybe at Fort Benning? I could be wrong, I am just pulling it off of what I think I remember. Amazing, none the less.
Correct, self taught then went to train.
The Canadian had multiple shots on a fixed target that was too dumb to understand what was going on.
The Brit was a member of a high power shooting team in his youth and he was trained, allegedly, by US troops.
If you are trying to draw some vague parallel to people outside the US being better long range shooters, I would suggest you do some reading up on the history of long range military application of lead induced terminal trauma in opposing forces.
In addition, when you compare the high altitude ballistics of Afghanistan versus those of, say, high density air of a place like S.E. Asia and a guy named Carlos, you begin to really understand what goes into long range shooting on moving targets.
Now, the Canadian used a McMillan Tac-50 cal, an American custom rifle that is VERY expensive in civilian application, and he needed two to three shots, depending on who's report you read. The Brit was using an AWM in .338 Lapua, which makes the shot that much more impressive as the cartridge is not as well known for knock down kills as the .50 and the .416/.408 applications at those ranges. And in his shooting, it took multiple shots to get "on target". Neither of these applications were "cold bore".
However, all those shots pale in comparison to the shot made in Fallujah by the Marine with the .308
Everything being equal, that guy is probably either ONE of the luckiest, or deadliest, shooters on the planet.
All throughout the history of US military success, there are stories of superior marksmanship making the difference between success and failure. I also love how the military is allowing the media access to these stories. Just little glimpses into a military that actually has some people who know how to win a war with true success on the battlefield and a focused media campaign showing people (enemy included) those successes.
I hope you don't doubt my belief or understanding that American trained long range shooters are superior to foreign trained shooters. I was in the understanding that the best of the allied long range shooters were trained by American military long range shooters.
And, you are correct about the long range ability of the .308 from everything I have read.
this is pretty old if im not correct, and the canaidan Rob furlong has the officail record with 1.5 miles and he did it with a macmillian tac 50 with american bullets, last i heard at least.
this is from the same history channel show. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKSI7MQhB0o]The Longest Shot[/ame]
btw did you get this from the millitary.com newsletter thing? cuz i got that too
To be honest, I was not not sure where your other post was headed.
If you take a look at the list of "most prolific" shooters/snipers in history you will find that a lot of folks from foreign countries are at or near the top of the list, Simo being in the lead followed by a countryman named Sulo.
There are lots of foreign born names on the magic list, but apples need to be compared to apples.
The thing is, you have to factor in the battlefield they were shooting on. Sure Zeitsev and Koenig/Thorvald ( if Koenig/Thorvald was actually one man instead of a compilation of shooters ) both had a ton of kills, but they were shooting in urban environments with long shots being down the street.
But compared to what Carlos Hathcock and Chuck Mawhinney did in Vietnam, especially on hill 55, it's another type of shooting altogether.
But no, wasn't taking a shot at you, was just trying to clarify when it comes to this discussion because there is a LOT of bad information out there.
The first one mile kill was made by a Union sniper on a Confederate general. The rifle was a 69 caliber "slug gun" built by Morgan James. The range was a surveyed mile. Time of flight was on the order of five seconds. That WAS a single, cold bore shot. Could hardly be otherwise with a muzzleloading rifle!
Anyone who has fired in long range competition against shooters from Britain, Australia, New Zealand, Germany, South Africa, or a host of other countries, is well aware that the US doesn't have a monopoly on producing skilled shooters. What the US does have is a very deep pool of good shooters.
I am going to have to ask for a source on this revelation because a .69 caliber slug going a mile accurately and hitting a man sized target is going to be new news.
If you are talking about Major General John Sedgwick, it was never proven the exact distance, but reports have the shooters being anywhere from 800 to 1200 yards away depending on who is writing the story. None of the shots were thought to be cold bore either.
There is no question that Morgan James turned out some accurate rifles, but 5,280ft plus with a .69 caliber and a cold bore shot to boot?
The only source I have for this account is "The Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle" by Ned Roberts. He quotes a Colonel Winthrop Sawyer who claims a Captain John Metcalf made this shot at a range of "one mile, one hundred eighty seven feet". The shot was allegedly, the first and possibly, only shot fired from this position. It was certainly a "cold bore" shot. In fact, given the drill for cleaning and loading one of these rifles, every shot could be considered to be "cold bore"!
Beyond this, I must confess to being a bit off and offer my apology. The rifle was not made by Morgan James but the telescopic sight was. The rifle was made by Abe Williams of Oswego, New York and was of fifty caliber; not .69 (can't this guy get anything right?!). I was going from memory and had not read this passage since about 1972. Roberts claimed to have seen the rifle and a copy of the War Department record on exhibition.
Now, I have to admit, I have always figured accounts of this shot to have been mostly folklore and if such a shot was truly made, it would have to have been one of the great flukes of all time. Not that the rifle would not have been accurate enough; many of these very heavy, machine rest rifles were capable of accuracy well under minute of angle but not at such extreme range. The same is true of modern weapons. The best 50 cal BR rifles are certainly capable of accuracy under 1/2 moa at a thousand yards but not under field conditions. Still, one would expect the chances of scoring a hit today, while not certain, are considerably better than they would have been 150 years ago! GD
Well GD, that happens to the best of us.
Taking it at face value, it would have to go down as one of the truly great shots, or truly great shooters, of all time. Totally possible in my eyes because you just never know.
That said, I think the attempt at shooting any black powder based personal firearm at the distance of one mile is probably going to have a tremendous amount of luck in any shot.
1760 is a LONG ways down range, even with today's CNC machined, custom built weapons.
I dunno about any of you but I don't want to be in the crosshairs of any one of these shooters within 1.5 miles. Count me out. If I seen on the news that one of my brother in arms just got whacked from a mile out I quit I surrender I will tell you what ever you want to effing know man really. You want to know where osama is I will get you a effing 15 digit grid on his ass. Just get me the hell out of here.
The folks mentioned in this thread are ALMOST as good as the member we had that could hit a bird in flight at 100 yards with his Kel-Tec...
C'mon man. Nothing could beat the guy we had here for awhile. His avatar was a target with what looked like 3 shots strung horizontally across the right side of the "X" ring going into the 9.
He claimed up, down and sideways that it was actually FIVE shots, but two of them went right through the same holes.
So, you can't fix the horizontal drift of the group, but you can shoot through the same hole again? Interesting. Or BS.
How about 1.5+ mile double kill?
New longest kill shot by sniper