Old Musket I came Across

Discussion in 'Blackpowder & Musket' started by Ripcord810, Aug 7, 2012.

  1. Ripcord810

    Ripcord810 New Member

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    First let me say I am a new member. I have looked at many of the post and think I might be able to find my answer here. I came across this musket in a trade earlier today and have no clue what I have. I am hoping someone might be able to lead me in the right direction as to what it is and should I hang on to it or consider trading it away.
     

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  2. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That shotgun is in nice shape. Someone has taken good care of it.
     

  3. Ripcord810

    Ripcord810 New Member

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    I really liked the lion head that still has the red glass eyes.
     
  4. opaww

    opaww New Member

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    The locks should have some type of ID that will tell the lock maker of the gun, it may be on the inside plate or outside plate. Also see if you can mesure the chamber Dia. of each chamber if one is defferent then the other then it maybe a english made shotgun.
     
  5. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    That looks cool with the carved stock and all. Post some pics of markings and one of the smart people will know what it is.
     
  6. St8LineGunsmith

    St8LineGunsmith New Member

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    Could be A SXS rifle
    I would like to see a picture of the muzzle and bore. actually need a lot more pics and pics of the top of the barrel and pics of both sides of the stock
    show some pics of the whole stock.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2012
  7. Ripcord810

    Ripcord810 New Member

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    Took a few more, hope they help.
     

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  8. JD1969

    JD1969 New Member

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    Get some picks of the muzzle and bore and chambers. Also any markings you can find will help. I'm sure someone here will know what it is, but they need better details. It sure looks cool. Oh and whatever you do DO NOT, DO NOT , DO NOT try and "clean it up", you could very well ruin any value it may have.
     
  9. St8LineGunsmith

    St8LineGunsmith New Member

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    Looking at the pictures it looks to be original and is probably a English SXS smoothe bore fowlerand probably has some historical value as well as monitary vaue not sure if it is colonial or post colonial era
    if there were any kind of makers mark or proof marks we could at least narrow down its origin and a good idea when it would have been made.
    someone like Colin Stolzer might be able to identify this fire arm but it has me stumped.
    Regardless if it were mine I would keep it at least long enough to find out what it is worth it could be that it is worth a small fortune
    I would not clean it up It is worth more with its patina in tact.
     
  10. TimL2952

    TimL2952 New Member

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    beautiful fowler ya got there.
     
  11. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Sir- I cannot say with certainty- need close up pics of the barrel markings with LOTS of pixels- but that APPEARS to be a Belgian made shotgun with Damascus barrels.

    Take a close look at the stampings. I think one of them may look like this:

    belgian proofmark2.gif

    That is the mark of the Belgian proofhouse at Liege, Belgium.

    Do not know if you are familiar with Damascus style barrels- they were made by taking strips of iron and steel, wrapping them around a metal rod, heating them and hammer forging them until they fused- and then the rod was driven out. This style was fine for the pressure of black powder- and when the barrels were new. Not fine for smokeless powder. Each of the thousands of welds is subject to corrosion from black powder, and, if sufficiently weakened, COULD fail in a violent manner upon firing. And that gun likely has 125 years or more of aging.

    I would not fire any original muzzle loading Damascus gun with anything- but that is because I really like my fingers where they are.

    Nice shotgun- deserves a retirement to a place of honor- above the fireplace. PS- If you have not done so, please be sure to use a ramrod, and check that there is not a load sitting in the barrel. Found one late last year, still loaded.
     
  12. superc

    superc Member

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    It looks like a Jaeger shotgun piece to me. German, Belgium something like that. I think if you see the exact proof mark shown above then it is definitely Belgium, circa 1870s. They varied their proof mark from time to time, so exact is crucial. Yes we would need to see a sharp focused image of each stamp to tell you more specific information. What I find interesting is the elaborate construction of the stock and trigger guard is not consistent with the plainness of the lock mechanism. I note also some gap between the front edge of the lock mechanism and the inletting of the wood. To me, this implies the locks may not be original to the stock.

    Since you describe yourself as a new member, and may therefore possibly be new to guns, you should not be the one to remove the lock yourself. Let a genuine, bonded, gunsmith with the proper size screwdrivers do that for you. No matter what it is, burred or marred screw heads will lower the value instantly. Have him 'mike' the bores too for you. As stated there will probably be a host of more markings inside the lock plate. In the old days, sometimes one shop made the locks, then sold the lock assemblies to a gunsmith who mated them (usually very meticulously) to a stock and barrel. Alternatively, sometimes everything was done in the same place. Sometimes additional maker marks are found somewhere on the stock. There are whole books and websites dedicated to who made what mark and in what year and who did subcontract work for who.

    In a perfect (but rare) world everything will have matching marks and you will have something. Sometimes with these pieces one or two pieces get lost or broken. Someone else years or a century later says, 'hey, do you think we can make this trigger guard fit that old stock? What about this old barrel and those locks from China, will they fit?'

    Point being if your stock is wood from Germany, the barrel is from Belgium in 1875, but it turns out the locks were sold by Dixie gun works last year, and the trigger guard is from Persia circa 1910, then you may not have much beyond a wall hanger curio. The stamp marks can tell us/you more.
     
  13. St8LineGunsmith

    St8LineGunsmith New Member

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    good eye c3shooter didn't see any marks on the barrel
     
  14. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    St8line- thanx. First set of photos, second from bottom. I learned how to cheat a bit on photos- hold down the control key, and turn the wheel on the mouse- picture enlarges. On the bottom barrel without the V marks, looks like the ELG oval. That why I said a lot of pixels- hi def photos can be blown up a lot. Also lets you see the lines of the damascus better.
     
  15. St8LineGunsmith

    St8LineGunsmith New Member

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    neat trick:)
     
  16. drboompa

    drboompa New Member

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    Lovely! Don't get rid of it. Keep it!