Okay, Now I've seen trained people

Discussion in 'Training & Safety' started by danf_fl, Sep 4, 2013.

  1. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    At the range, there were some young people who obviously were trained.
    Pull the firearm out,
    excellent hits on target,
    looking both ways to see if all "aggressors" were neutralized,
    reholster.

    Yep, fine shooting on their part, but there were a couple of problems with their gun handling skills.

    1. Pulling the firearm from the holster was okay, but on reholstering, they used the non-dominant hand to "verify" where the holster was on their belts, and promptly "swept" the muzzle over the non-dominant hand holding the holster (with loaded weapons and finger on trigger).

    2. Dropping slides on empty chambers, or putting one "in the tube" and letting the extractor try to go over the rim of the casing, and other non-recommended moves.

    When I explained what they were doing incorrect, they responded that was how they were trained.

    Paying big bucks for training does not mean you are getting quality training in all cases.
     
  2. Garadex

    Garadex New Member

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    Let me guess they were also Black Forces Delta Elite SEAL 83 Operators? Took a class and they become tactical ninja's trained in the art of looking badass to the uninformed.
     

  3. JW357

    JW357 New Member

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    Exactly. Which is why I always shudder a little bit when people harp on training, training, training. No, don't just go get ANY training. Some of these guys teach bad habits. The important thing is to do research and find good training.

    But also, you don't need excellent training, good training, or even bad training to know that you never flag someone, including yourself, at any time, especially when reholstering. I've heard the majority of AD/NDs happen while unholstering or reholstering.

    My point is you don't have to pay for special training to know not to point your weapon at something you don't intend to shoot. Thatshould be common sense. Unfortunately, it obviously isn't always.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2013
  4. DeltaF

    DeltaF New Member

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    This is true. Training and good training are two different things. And I have had good training and yet still learn more when I'm shooting with experienced shooters than I ever did in my training classes. Anybody who won't take advice is shooting themselves in the foot. When you stop listening you stop learning and when you stop learning you stop growing.

    "putting one "in the tube" and letting the extractor try to go over the rim of the casing, and other non-recommended moves."

    I'm not sure but this sounds like a combat load with a 12 gauge pump to me. Pretty standard stuff. In a firefight with a shotgun you come up empty. You have to get more rounds in the tube but you don't want to lower your muzzle and you don't want to keep an empty chamber so you put one in the ejection port and slam the pump forward. Then you load the tube the normal way while keeping the muzzle pointed at the threat area. I'm probably way off base though cuz the other issues you spotted looked like handgun issues. :shrug:

    Either way its rude to blow advice off even if its bad advice (not that yours was, I'm sure it was excellent). Training is no substitute for experience.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2013
  5. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    Educate me on the "dropping slide on empty chambers" issue?

    I don't usually let my semi-autos slam shut unless they are chambering a round, but I didn't know there was a reason.
     
  6. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    That is okay with a shotgun, but with a 1911, that is a no-no.
    The extractor will break or at least get out of tune creating extraction problems.
     
  7. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    Normal shooting:
    Finger is holding the trigger and sear does not bounce on hammer.
    Letting the slide slam forward without a round (that itself acts like a cushion), the sear gets slammed by the hammer. Ruined more than a couple of good trigger jobs.
     
  8. DeltaF

    DeltaF New Member

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    Some numbnuts is training kids to drop a round in the ejection port of a 1911? WTF? Why not jam a magazine in there and release the slide??? Who has time to fumble with a tiny handgun round and a tiny handgun ejection port? Equipment damage aside, in a real sticky situation once your stress level hits the fan and your fine motor skills go to crap all you're gonna do is drop the round on the ground or slice your finger open.

    :deep breath:

    Okay I'm done. Carry on.
     
  9. 7point62

    7point62 Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    There's a big disparity gap in the competency level of "certified" civilian firearms instructors. And there are too many gimmicks being passed off as technique.
     
  10. Jagermeister

    Jagermeister New Member

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    "When I explained what they were doing incorrect, they responded that was how they were trained."

    Probably **** in their pants in a gun fight. End up shooting themselves in the foot on the draw.


    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvxIXd2-3fo[/ame]
     
  11. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    Some people have a hard time holstering a pistol without sweeping themselves. In fact, in the new IDPA rulebook it clearly says that due to a person's body type they can not holster a gun without sweeping themselves. There shall be no penalty for sweeping oneself. If you are using an IWB holster, pocket carry or a belly band holster it's damn near impossible to holster a gun without sweeping yourself. Some of us have good and valid points why an OWB holster is a bad idea. That is another thread.
     
  12. JW357

    JW357 New Member

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    Yes, but...
    That's not an issue with body type. That's an issue with stupidity and bad training.
     
  13. DeltaF

    DeltaF New Member

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    Sweeping due to body type, yeah okay I'll give you that one. It happens, cant discriminate against fat people, they should be able to defend themselves too. Sweeping your off-hand while securing the holster? Hey I'll even give you that one, with some holsters it's necessary. Sweeping your off-hand while holstering with your finger on the trigger as listed in the OP? When is THAT ever okay?!
     
  14. AR10

    AR10 New Member

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    $600 or more on a handgun, and $19 on a walmart holster, and a $3 walmart belt, is one problem. No amount of training can overcome bad equipment.

    I recommend a good quality dedicated holster that fits exactly, the gun being used, and a good quality Instructors belt, like www.thewilderness.com

    Holstering is not a timed for speed element of the presentation. One needs to practice, practice, practice, all aspects of gun handling.
     
  15. 7point62

    7point62 Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    x100. And who the hell taught them to move that muzzle anywhere from downrange with a digit still inside the trigger guard? Do that on a pro range and you're a tackle dummy.
     
  16. 7point62

    7point62 Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Absolutely. Nothing worse than a holster that is less than a perfect fit.