Ok so your carrying your fav

Discussion in 'Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection' started by 32tudor, Sep 30, 2011.

  1. 32tudor

    32tudor New Member

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    Encounter#1 Ok so your carrying your favorite CCP and you encounter and thug with mace or pepper spray . do you shoot to kill or wait till he sprays you.

    possibly taking your gun and shooting you

    Encounter#2 only now the thug has a tazer or stun gun WHAT DO YOU DO ?

    I'm just interested in what you would do .
     
  2. MrWray

    MrWray New Member

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    If you are sprayed by pepper spray by someone you want to make some distance between you and them. Pepper spray is not considered a dangerous or deadly weapon,it is "non lethal force" you CAN NOT shoot someone for just spraying you. You need to make distance and work through it. Ive been sprayed about 20 times in training and came in contact with it probably over a hundred times in the field after utilizing it.. It will completely incipacitate some people while just a hinderance to others.. If you are ever pepper sprayed " dont freak out" keep your senses and work through it
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2011

  3. MrWray

    MrWray New Member

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    A Taser is classified as " less than lethal force" totally different than non lethal force. I have had 50,000v, 100,000v, 200,000v, stun guns used on me in training, electric riot shields,rack belts used on me in training and have been Tased with an X26 Taser. Non of it is fun.especially the X26. An actual Taser will incapacitate you and deadly force would be authorized
     
  4. g17frantz

    g17frantz New Member

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    Wray, due to your LEO training, is there no way that pepper spray would ever be considered that lethal force was necessary? You don't really know the perps intentions whether he plans to rob you or cause physical harm to you. And what if you're with your family like my wife and my 6 mo old baby?
     
  5. MrWray

    MrWray New Member

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    Of course the situation would dictate, it would all depend on how the court perceives it and how you articulate the reason why you decided to use deadly force. Everyfhing would take account, like how you reacted to the pepper spray. If you dont have an extreme reaction to the spray and are still able to function fine then the court will not see the need for you to use deadly force. If the BG has sprayed you and your eyes and face are burning but you can still see fine and you shoot the BG and find out that they arent armed with anything else then you could have a problem. Its really a case by case situation
     
  6. g17frantz

    g17frantz New Member

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    Great, thanks wray. Ive always kinda wondered about that.
     
  7. MrWray

    MrWray New Member

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    Now say the BG has pepper spray in one hand and a knife in the other hand and he sprays you in the face and you cant hardly see, He hasnt made a threatening move with the knife yet BUT it is safe to assume that the knife attack is coming next. I would say that you are justified to use deadly force
     
  8. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    to me i consider pepper spray and tasers deadly weapons. people have lost their lives being tasered and sprayed. its one reason i dont use either for self defense.

    if the situation requires use of force it better be the strongest you can field.

    who is to say the goblin isnt incapacitating you in order to take you home in his rape van then kill you and put your parts in the freezer for later consumption....
     
  9. phildenton

    phildenton New Member

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    pepper spray can be deadly to a person with asthma, so lets say you have asthma and a bg approaches and pulls out mace, even if they havent sprayed yet, being afraid for your life, would you be justified in pulling your gun and firing?
     
  10. MrWray

    MrWray New Member

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    Not at all,you still have the option to try and remove yourself from the situation
     
  11. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    its not just fear of death. most state ccw self defense includes thing like great bodily harm robbery kidnapping etc. unless your a psychic, how do you know the goblin doesnt just want you incapped so he can mutilate you or take a body part as a trophy or rape you??
     
  12. UrbanNinja

    UrbanNinja New Member

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    Say the BG does have pepper spray in a small dark cylindrical shape container in his hand dropped to his side. All that is visual to you is a black cylinder.

    As he begins to raise his arm, you have less then a second to decide whether this object is in fact pepper spray or possibly a small derrenger size pistol or for that matter a "zip gun"?

    Now the voice is...your life or his?

    You have no idea what he is holding.. do you dare take that chance?
     
  13. MrWray

    MrWray New Member

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    In this instance i would go hands on and attempt to disarm the individual, because again... If you shoot the guy and its just pepper spray you have months and months of articulating your story to a judge and jury.. You are exactly right though, you have no clue what he has in his hand and i know from years of experience that s*** happens very quick and your left with fractions of a second to make your decision. I cant say what everyone would do, i just know what i would do. It is something to think about
     
  14. BenLuby

    BenLuby New Member

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    I'll agree with that, and add that another issue to consider would be the size difference and your level of training.
    Those with LEO training are going to be held to a higher standard, as are those who the perp is smaller than.
    Backpedaling (always be aware of your surroundings and avoid a 'dead end' behind you if at all possible) is always an option, as pepper spray is not fun.
    Less than one second to make a decision isn't much time.
    But with the CCW comes a lot of responsibility.
     
  15. Triumphman

    Triumphman Active Member

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    Very interesting senerios and possibilities with good strong words from a LEO. However, here in Missouri, we have the Castle Law that states--"A person doesn't have to back down from a situation". ALL ITEMS used for a crime can be considered a deadly situation, and all a person needs to tell themselves "Am I in a Deadly Situation and FEARED FOR MY LIFE. It's NOT whether that situation is deadly to another person---only to that person involved. Even a person who has trained with Karate/Judo or other means of self defense and it is used to commit a crime, can be considered a dangerous object and if you considered yourself to be in a "fear for my life" situation---deadly force can be used. So if I'm getting the crap beat out of me for no reason by one person or a gang(I'm over 55yrs old), I will take that as being in a fear for my life. Another situation, is even if a Perp is robbing you, but they're in your barn/shed, all detatched structures in Missouri(at least in my part of Missouri) can be dealt, with deadly force, as if that person was breaking into your home. However most BG's know this, with all the farms, and don't mess with farmers, who probably have some of the largest arsonals available within arms reach at all times.
    Del
     
  16. NOVA

    NOVA New Member

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    Castle Law ought to be the law in every state in the Union , IMO. I think that's what our founding fathers intended.
     
  17. 32tudor

    32tudor New Member

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    > Ok so your carrying your fav

    So what it all boils down to is if your former law enforcement you get a pass and if your Joe public ,you get screwed. Sad state of affairs we are in .

    I take ccw very serious and I would de-escalate if possible turn and leave in favor of standing my ground cause we know how that's going to turn out ,

    And I don't see this society getting any better till the economy turns around, things are going to continue to go down hill .
     
  18. Overkill0084

    Overkill0084 Active Member

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    Wouldn't some random person trying to spray you with pepper spray be considered assault in most places? If it's happening to me, I'm going to assume that they don't have my best interests at heart.
     
  19. MrWray

    MrWray New Member

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    Absolutely, it is cosidered assault, your just not justified in using deadly force...unless there are other factors that dictate that the BG is hell bent on ending your existance and the pepper spray is just being used to incapacitate you to make it easier for him.
     
  20. MrWray

    MrWray New Member

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    I wouldnt say that a former LEO would get a pass, homicide is homicide.. Its either justified or its not..