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Discussion in 'The Club House' started by cpttango30, Jul 31, 2010.
Officer fires gun at Winona campsite
Not sure how I feel about this one?
Taking the article on face value, she was in the right. She was threatened, she heard another person being threatened with death. She should have called it in and then approached, but she didn't; she messed up there.
If there are other facts that are not evident in the article, that may change the opinion. We all know how accurately the press presents things.
I'm with Glass on this one. She was actually damned if she did and damned if she didn't. If she had kept completely out of it and someone got hurt or killed and people found out she was a cop, was there and did nothing there would be hell to pay for her not doing something. Now she did something and is being second guessed. If what the article says is true then other than calling the cops after intervening instead of before she did well and did not have to shoot someone. I would really like to see the statements and read the report on this one.
I am not a police officer. Never have been, and don't claim to be.
I think this officer did EXACTLY what she could, given the facts as presented.
If she had called police first, and something had happened, she would be accused of not doing enough in contrast to where she is now.
When I look at this kind of story, I ask myself two questions.
1) What would I do in this situation. I personally believe that when seconds count, the police are minutes away. In this case, that could have been 10's of minutes.
2) What would I want done if this was my sister, my female co-worker, etc.
I think this officer did exactly what I would have wanted done given those two questions above. She investigated first to stop any potential harm and was confronted. She reacted with a non-lethal solution to a situation where she was outmanned 2 to 1 and she was the smallest of the people involved.
Taking my thought process one more step further, I have to ask anyone who voted she made a mistake:
What would you have wanted your sister/mother/girlfriend to do in that situation if she was already confronted??
It went down the way I would have handled it, except; still on the phone when I intervened in the domestic dispute.
Well done to this officer.
There is an old maxim that says you never pull a gun unless you shoot it and you never shoot it unless you intend to hit something. I disagree. It may sound John Wayne-like to say that, but many problems are solved in simpler ways. The mere presence of a gun will often quiet a disturbance, but if not, the sound of a shot will do a lot more. I've used both to quell situations that could have gotten pretty ugly. I'm not a LEO, nor have I ever been, so the circumstances here are different. All the facts have to be known to say for sure, but I think the common sense thing was done here and it should be commended.
Her mistake was in firing a warning shot. She should have doubletapped the azzhat, and gone for the next one. Since he was demanding "Shoot me!"- she should have. 2 on one, remote area- the only backup you are going to have is being held in your hand, safety off, slack taken up.
Arm-chair quarterbacking this one.... I have to agree with her decision to go with a show of force because it kept her from being victimized. Giving up one of 5 rounds in a 2-on-1 has me wondering, though.
Yes, she did the right thing. I know that what she did is probably against the law but you sometimes have to disregard the law in order to save a life and in this case it may have been her own. Good JOB!
I hate the idea of reading a squib report in a newspaper and making a judgment. There's no way we can tell exactly how threatened she felt.
But if what we see is all that happened, I probably would have not "wasted" a round into the ground. She probably only had, like, 7 rounds.
Pull it to be ready because she already felt the situation had gone beyond the critical line. Point when you need to shoot. And shoot to end the situation. I don't think I would have fired into the ground.
ah ...just from the first post in this thread I got a different view. Now that I read the whole article she should have shot the guy. Firing a "warning shot" into the ground is never a good idea imo. You do not know what that bullet is going to hit in the ground or if its going to ricochet and hit some one else.
Was she right in firing the "warning shot" imo no, she should have shot her attacker.
The warning shot I don't agree with either.
I was always told the warning shot should be center mass. If the bg still wants to rumble then you shoot till he stops being a threat.
1) She wasn't being attacked, she was confronting a situation and found herself in a 2:1 situation.
So, you two would be willing to end a drunken argument at a neighboring campsite by shooting someone dead??
The response provided solved the problem and did not result in a death that would need to be explained 6 ways from sunday.
As for shooting a round into the ground, I kind of have to side with the thought that the shooter KNEW the ground conditions and knew it would penetrate.
I am failing to understand the second guessing of stopping a possible assault WITHOUT the death or serious injury of any involved?
uuummm yes if this happened...
"Concerned for the woman's safety, the officer drew her gun and approached the site with her badge and flashlight, Williams said. She identified herself as an officer, Williams said, but the man began moving toward her aggressively, yelling "Shoot me."
Another man approached, and the officer - who is about 5 foot 5 inches tall and weighs about 110 pounds - suspected the two men, both more than 6 feet tall, were planning to disarm her, Williams said.
When the men were only several feet away, she fired a single round from her .380 caliber handgun into the ground, she told police.
"She felt she was going to be disarmed," Williams said. "And as opposed to shooting them, she fired the round to demonstrate she was a cop and had a gun."
The first man said he was going get his gun and shoot her, and said he had been to prison several times, Williams said. He began rummaging through his truck, so the officer called police...."
Never fire a warning shot like I mentioned and being drunk is not an excuse. The aggressor did not stop advancing towards officer. Plus you can never know what is under the dirt just by looking at it or its hardness...especially at a camping site that has been used over and over and over. Remember this did happen at night or around 1AM Sunday morning. So seeing the ground is limited and we do not know how lit up the camp site was. I will still keep my statement that she should have not fired a warning shot but should have shot one of the aggressors.
This will all be figured out in court with witnesses, seeing that we do not know the whole story. Did the officer trip and accidentally discharge her firearm? we don't know. Was the officer also intoxicated? we don't know. Do we know the full accounts of this incident from both the officer and the aggressors? no we don't. I'm not going to jump to conclusions on lets assume this and that, but from just what I have read and the question posed I stand by what I said.
Without more information that would be to the contrary, I'd have to support the officer.