Observer of Road Rage Incident

Discussion in 'Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection' started by Balota, Jul 25, 2014.

  1. Call 911

    21 vote(s)
    60.0%
  2. Tell them to separate

    1 vote(s)
    2.9%
  3. Stay out of it entirely

    10 vote(s)
    28.6%
  4. Shoot both and let God sort it out

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Open 6 pack and place bets

    7 vote(s)
    20.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Balota

    Balota ... but I used to play keyboards.

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    As I was driving through downtown Tulsa, I came up to a traffic light. There were two cars parked in the right lane with occupants outside the vehicles yelling at each other. One got back in his vehicle, so the guy behind him jumped in his vehicle. Second guy drove quickly to the empty space beside the first guy and started yelling at the first guy and trying to call him out to a fight. When the light changed the second guy raced off, turned in front of the first guy and proceeded into a parking lot. First guy braked to avoid the second guy and then drove away. That's all I know.

    What say you FTF? As a licensed handgun carrier, what actions should I have taken?
     
  2. FernandoTheCommando

    FernandoTheCommando New Member

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    I think you did the right thing by not getting involved. Call the police next time. Unless that person is being beaten badly (depending on what state you live in) I wouldn't intervene. You never know what caused the argument and you could go to jail just for drawing a weapon. No need to go on the offensive, as a ccw holder, unless someone's life is in danger and you are sure you won't face severe legal ramifications.
     

  3. stag556

    stag556 New Member

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    I'm not sure what you mean "what actions should you have taken?" Are you asking if because you carry a gun that you should have gotten involved in there shouting match, and tried to stop them from yelling at each other?
     
  4. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    If there was no violence, no one in danger, then there was nothing for you to do. Hurt feelings is not a reason to shoot someone.
     
  5. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    IMO, nothing. no crime was being committed and it seems it was a private matter between two strangers. at most, maybe calling the police and giving them a location and the events you observed and let them worry about it.
     
  6. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    take down description of vehicles plates and combatants call 911 relay info and then stay out of it. there are no good actors in mutual road rage. a description and plate being a good witness is all you need to do.

    two grown man-babies going at it and you jumping in there makes three man-babies at that point.

    dont be a man-baby

    [​IMG]
     
  7. rjd3282

    rjd3282 New Member

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    None of my business. Why should the police be called every time two people get in a fight? It's possible one or both of the DB's need their head thumped, maybe then they won't be so quick to get out and start something and maybe, just maybe they will stop driving like a dumb ass if they get their gourd thumped.
     
  8. Balota

    Balota ... but I used to play keyboards.

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    In the actual event, the two guys separated and I left with no involvement. But the situation could have turned out several other ways. Verbal jousting, fisticuffs, one-sided beat down, vehicular assault, etc. The purpose of the thread is to discuss reasonable actions by an observer.
     
  9. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    you should still have reported it. there have been incidents of an argument that culminated days later into murder.

    having a ccw is for your personal protection and your family's. its not to allow you to act as a law enforcer. im former military police, been there done it. nowadays i ccw everyday and avoid other people's bs like the freekin plague. i tend to call 911 2-3 times a year reporting incidents and dangerous people driving stupidly.

    last time was some assclown dragging his 7 year old daughter behind his truck with her in a barbie car tied to the hitch with poly rope... my ccw doesnt mean i need to get involved anymore than dialing 911 if im not at risk

    balota,

    i wasnt calling YOU a man-baby just trying to illustrate how stupid getting involved in such an incident would be
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
  10. Balota

    Balota ... but I used to play keyboards.

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    No problem Jon, I got that. In the actual event, I was definitely not going to get out of my vehicle since I was open carry at the time. I had no intention of introducing the presence of a gun, in the holster or otherwise, into such a situation.

    I obviously have a lot of work to do on my observational skills. I cannot remember even vehicle colors or types, much less tag numbers.
     
  11. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    its a skill you have to practice or it decays.

    thats why i always carried a notebook and pen and pencil on duty. write it down or it didnt happen was my motto drilled into my head by the mp school.

    nowadays i have an ap on my android with a button push it records and i can speak outloud descriptions plates incident etc.
     
  12. stag556

    stag556 New Member

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    If there was a actual physical fight going on, where there was a "beatdown" then I would say Jon M's advice would be the best course of action. Just because someone has a CCW permit does not make them a crime fighter.

    Remember just because you have a gun doesn't mean that they don't.
     
  13. Steel_Talon

    Steel_Talon New Member

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    You did the right thing..... You could of pulled your cell phone and called 911 and started recording the incident from a distance..
     
  14. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    The poll options failed to include "Get popcorn".

    AS DESCRIBED, no action thus far would be appropriately addressed with deadly force. You just have two people yelling at each other.

    Now, if driver A has driver B down on the pavement, whaling away with a tire iron, that could be a different matter.

    As far as descriptions, there was the guy that painted the left half of his car blue, the right half red. Said it looked like hell- but you should see the witnesses argue with each other.


    Now, the original scenario would have been avoided if one of the driver's in your example had the correct optional accessory to their car- [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rFvR7Bv9Fk[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2014
  15. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    You did the what I would have done.

    As a CWP, my accessory is to be used to stop threats. They separated, so threat was stopped.

    (And opening a 6 pack and placing bets won't work as they were no longer at it.)
     
  16. Airborne1

    Airborne1 Member

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    I think a call to 911 would be my choice, just in case it goes too far. And what if one of them pulls out a gun and accidentily shoots a bystander? Better to call 911
     
  17. AmPaTerry

    AmPaTerry Forum Chaplain Lifetime Supporter

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    As long as it is verbal, I would do nothing.
    If it accelerated, I would call 911.
    If a reasonable person would think someone is in danger of death or grave bodily harm, I would intervene, per Tennessee state law.

    But be DARNED careful.

    I have a nightmare that has been repeated several times.
    I am out in the woods, communing with nature, and carrying my 1911 - as I usually do.
    I hear screaming ahead behind some bushes, and I rush to them and see a guy beating the crap out of a young woman.
    I draw my .45, but before I can even shout, he raises a knife overhead, preparing to stab her.
    I blow his butt away.
    Then I hear other voices -
    Then I see the camera crew -
    I have just killed an actor in a movie being filmed -
     
  18. Shoobee

    Shoobee New Member

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    Ayoob teaches in his CCW courses that calling 911 and observing is your primary and only responsibility. Any more involvement than this is not what you were trained for. Any less involvement is immoral.
     
  19. Shoobee

    Shoobee New Member

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    Although the modern technology is nice, it is also distracting.

    On my cell phone I can dial 911 just by pressing a button.

    From that point on, I would be talking into the phone while I watch what is going on.

    If any of the belligerents were then to approach me, it would then be time to start the 4 point draw -- that's also why it's best always to hold the phone in your non-shooting hand --

    -- grasp the pistol firmly in the tang of the grip

    -- if deemed appropriate draw to the hip position

    -- etc.

    Anyone approaching you as you were in the process if making a call and reporting a situation is a dead give away of their aggressive nature and intent.

    I like drawing to the hip in that case, because the pistol is still protected by being close to you.

    The next obvious action would be to shout to the person to stop right there.

    If they continue to advance however, that serves as an assault, and you should in no case let them get closer than 7 yards.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2014
  20. Airborne1

    Airborne1 Member

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    Thank you for that info Shoobee!