NOOBIE: home FFL app questions

Discussion in 'NFA/Class 3 & FFL Discussion' started by KAG, Jun 23, 2009.

  1. KAG

    KAG New Member

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    Howdy folks,
    I am applying for my FFL for a home based business and I had a few questions for the experianced.
    1) Hours of Operation, does it matter?
    2) I am wanting to machine my own parts, will and 07 work along with the 01/02?

    Thanks
     
  2. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Hours- yes. If you are "engaging in the business" of buying, selling, or repairing firearms, the ATF wants to know that are keeping regular hours, They can be whatever you set, and possible that they may be by appointment.

    Manufacturing is a bit fuzzy, and have heard some different opinions from ATF on what constitutes manufacturing (SURPRISE !:rolleyes:_) However, the one area you would really encounter manufacturer's license is if making the receiver- since legally THAT is the gun.

    Call and talk with the ATF technical firearms branch to be sure.
     

  3. Dgunsmith

    Dgunsmith New Member

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    You mention making your own parts. What parts ?

    If the receiver itself, then you need an 07 Manufacturers license.....and all the OSHA compliance forms that go with it.

    Other than the serialized part, you can make all the other parts you want without a license.

    You MUST be in compliance with all State/Local zoning regulations regarding operating a business from your residence and have a state sales tax license before an FFL would be granted.

    There will be a visit from BATF and interview prior to issue.
     
  4. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    And IF you are manufacturing receivers, remember that there is a Federal Excise Tax on each receiver. The Feds want their money. This is what put Ithaca out of business. They had not paid their Federal Excise taxes.
     
  5. KAG

    KAG New Member

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    Thanks guys.
    Yea, the goal is to make recievers, but all the fuss about it is a real drag. I am wanting to make Safari rifes ussing the 388 Lapua round.

    My uncle does some of the same stuff and he has his FFL but he was sent to play afgan lead tag last week. So its hard to get his help now. I have my finger print cards done and the CLEO will be back in town tomorrow too sign off on my stuff.

    I know I have read this 100 times but with the form 7 I need to send the 2finger print cards and photos. Right? All together? do i need to attach the photos to the form?
     
  6. Lanco Tactical

    Lanco Tactical New Member

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    For what it is worth... you need a type 7 FFL to "make" stripped receivers. BUT you do not have to pay the excise tax if you do not assemble them into working firearms. So if all you do is make stripped lower receivers for AR's and sell them stripped to other dealers or retail buyers you will never have to pay any federal excise tax...

    You can make all other parts for guns that are not serialized (basically anything except the receiver on a rifle/shotgun and the frame for pistol/revolvers) without having to have an FFL of any type or incur any excise tax.

    The only time the federal excise tax is incurred is when all the parts come together to form the complete functional firearm. Until that happens no excise tax is due... (In order to assemble all the parts you need a type 7 FFL as well...)

    I have a type 7 FFL and have talked to every division of the BATF many times in the last few months about just this subject... TTB (now treasury no longer BATF) ATF TFB, NFA, etc. to make sure I am doing everything by the book...

    Still do your own research and talk to the agents to get the answers for yourself but this is what I have learned...

    Hope this helps...

    Nathan Lamb
    Lanco Tactical LLC
     
  7. Achillesarms

    Achillesarms New Member

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    I am looking to start designing and prototyping assault rifles, and semi-auto handguns, then possibly making and selling in small batches. I am 23 and live in Tenn. I am taking machine classes, and studying under a gunsmith. What is a good source on info, rules, and regulations about going this path?

    thanks, i just joined
     
  8. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    Does the hours of operation pertain to a smith shop?
     
  9. MrM4

    MrM4 New Member

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    rember there is a 49 gun exemption for 07s and excise tax.
     
  10. DrumJunkie

    DrumJunkie New Member

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    This might just be a Kentucky thing but they have pretty much stopped giving FFL's to people if the business is in the home. A couple I know applied and one was told that he needed a store front with posted open hours. THe other guy was told that they are trying to shop sellers fropm working oput of the home. I don't see where it matters but that was the story I got.
     
  11. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Drum- not accurate. You must meet all the requirements for conducting business at the named premises- have a business license, be zoned for business, etc- but you CAN have an 01 FFL and have your home as the premises. They ARE- and have been- thinning out the "hobbyist"- and the regs DO say you must intend to "engage in the business".

    And Dan- hours of operation DO pertain to a smith. If they want to show up for audit, it is at the days/ hrs you are open for business. But if that is 6pm to 10 pm Friday, Saturday, Sunday, that can be legit. Had an old time naufacturing smith I used to deal with who was open from 6pm to 2AM. For real. He liked the night, and had fewer people bugging him while machining a barrel.
     
  12. DrumJunkie

    DrumJunkie New Member

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    I'm just repeating the info I was given. I know for fact that one guy's house was in a business or residential zone He was told that he needed display cases, a direct way into the "shop" and a few other hoops to jump through. I'm not saying about the law. I really do noty know the law and that is why I did not refer to it. I just told a story about two people that I knew that where turned down. The second man was told pretty flat out that they don't like issuing an FFL to someone that does not have an actual store front. THey where told that they wanted to weed out people that get an FFL just to buy weapons and get them shipped to their homes. In the case of the first guy he was setting up with everything to have an actual store and could from the land he was on due to the zoning in his area.

    So I must disagree. I am very accurate. Again I am not taking about the law. As we know many times the law has nothing to do with things that involve the law. The tales I told where accurate. Would it happen all over the state? I do not know. I just know what has gone on around here. THe two men had no criminal record and put all their ducks in a row. But apparently it was not enough. It reminds me of the marijuana tax stamps that the government used when first making it a controlled substance. You could grow marijuana all you wanted but you had to get the tax stamp. But they didn't issue any stamps. Was that something that didn't happen? Because the law was in the favor of the people applying for the stamps.
    Just because there are laws in lace for the proper regulation of FFL holders. It does not mean that these regulations will always be enforced correctly. But it does not make it inaccurate.
     
  13. docpadds

    docpadds New Member

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    I would love to see the written denial on that one because if they have satisfied the background check, the zoning, the business licenses and all of that, there is no legal way to deny it.

    Now most common scenario is that a city wont give a variance to operate a business at that location and in that case no FFL. BATFE doesnt even require a safe :)
     
  14. TheOldMan

    TheOldMan New Member

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    What he said... You meet the BATF requirements for the license, you get the license. Meeting the requirements means you've already gotten the city permits, blessings, etc...
     
  15. Byrdguy

    Byrdguy New Member

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    I already have a legitimate business and all the licenses for that business. I own and operate out of a warehouse, and don't actually have a storefront. Could an FFL be "tacked" on with an existing business"? We have secure storage for firearms plus a security system.
    I' too have been thinking of trying to get an FFL.
     
  16. docpadds

    docpadds New Member

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    If you just want an FFL under the name of the existing company, then your zoning is likely already good to go, and all the sales tax etc is done. Really thats the easiest way. We setup in our warehouse that our IT company had, and then created a second company to do the job.

    The requirements of getting the FFL are all business/background check oriented, having a safe doesn't matter.
     
  17. Byrdguy

    Byrdguy New Member

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    That's kind of what I was thinking. I think I'll go for it.
     
  18. Achillesarms

    Achillesarms New Member

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    does the batfe make you have any type of lib insurance? besides what type of insurance does a small firearm manufacturer get? how much would it cost?

    I give props to those entrep. who dare opening a firearm business! It must cost alot to open such a business.
     
  19. docpadds

    docpadds New Member

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    Insurance is not a requirement of the BATFE. We have liability insurance etc through our insurance guy, really no different from any other business for us.
     
  20. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Re: Insurance- as the man said, the ATF does not care. HOWEVER- if you are going to be IN THE BUSINESS of buying and selling guns, I would STRONGLY urge you to do 2 things-

    First, incorporate, and have the license in the name of the corporation. NOT because of the ATF- because of the guy that buys an SKS from you, takes it to the range without cleaning the gunk from the bolt, gets a slamfire x10, and shoots his buddy. (Actually provided testimony in the above case) Incorporating is for when the WIFE of the dearly departed sues YOU. Only the assets of the corporation can be attacked. Not YOUR house, not YOUR car, not YOUR kids college savings acct.

    Second- get liability insurance. You can find it- check with an independent agent, or check the NRA. It's REAL value is that your insurance company provides for your legal defense. If you think ammo is expensive lately, you have not priced out talking to a lawyer.