Firearms Talk banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
thought i'd make a new post to get insights on my rifle like what the stamp tells, is it worth it to restore it based on that and to nodifications done to it and stuff like that. i know quite a bit of people told me to just restore it but i'm a bit skeptical that this one can be restored to milspec so i thought i'd just share the pic and let the more knowledgeable people judge for me based on the hints on the rifle my grandpa left me before he passed away almost 7 years ago now. added two pictures of the damaged stock and forend but anyway if restoration is possible the forend will probably be thrashed...

DSC05157.JPG
DSC05160.JPG
DSC05165.JPG
DSC05168.JPG
DSC05169.JPG
DSC05171.JPG
DSC05166.JPG
DSC05167.JPG
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
26,131 Posts
Well, there are some of our members that are in Britain, and can speak more authoritatively on this than I can- but I'll give it a shot.

The British have had an identity crisis for years- as a result, they have worn out 115.7 tons of stamps beating their firearms to death. Among other things, you have multiple assembly numbers, which are used to see that the widget for rifle #1 gets assembled to the doohickey for rifle #1, and not (God forbid) to rifle #2.

They also have a need to prove themselves- or at least, their firearms. There are multiple poof marks that show a gun has been submitted to, and approved by the proof house- and in some cases, the spec that it proved. BNP shows it met the standards for the British Nitro Proof (smokeless powder)

The photo of the wrist tells you several things- that the rifle is the property of the sovereign- George Rex (or GR as his friends call him) where it was born (Enfield) and that was in 1918. It tells you it is a Smelly- or SMLE. Short, Magazine, Lee (its Godfather) and Enfield (its Motherland)
The III* Refers to the Model- Rifle #1, Mark III (and the star is a change from the No.1 Mark III with no star)

As far as restoration- well......... first I'd get the headspace checked. The design of the bolt makes the gun wicked fast to operate- but prone to developing excess headspace as it wears and ages. If ONLY the wood has been butchered, that can be replaced- but it will not regain the value of an original, unaltered rifle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
i imagine the dovetail fixed ironsight is not stock to the model? at least it's better than drilled i guess... keep them coming if there are more details. and thanks for the answer :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,628 Posts
It looks like it needs to be taken out of the stock and given a really good cleaning.
That rifle looks really dirty!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,266 Posts
1. The requirement for gun proof that seems to have amused c3shooter so much has been a legal requirement in England, and until the turn of the last century, Ireland [then all of it was under British management], since 1813. I'm a bit bemused that it should be deemed unusual but then the USA is so so big that it has never had a single state proof house, let alone a national one. BTW, the UK has only two now, Birmingham, once THE centre of the gun trade, and London, where most of the big names still are located.

2. The requirement for gun proof is written into law, not only here in UK, but in thirteen other nations who manufacture firearms for sporting purposes, under the auspices of the CIP, an organisation that regulates the safety of the production of both arms AND ammunition, setting standards in both dimensions and performance for ammunitions, and compliance with safe manufacture for guns.

3. As such, every US-made non-military firearm intended for sporting or leisure entering any of the fourteen CIP member nations must be subjected to gun proof before they can be sold commercially. Needless to say, CIP inter-national standards are accepted within the circle of members.

And BTW, BNP stands for BIRMINGHAM Nitro Proof, not 'British'. The 2.222" is the chamber length and the 18.5 TONS PER INCH is the test pressure. These markings were taken into use in 1954, but are now discontinued. The crown over crossed sceptres with a mix of letters would tell me the date of the proof. I'll be charitable and ignore the miss-spelling of the word 'proof' to read 'poof'.

Please note, for future reference, that the Proof Acts are actually put there by Parliament and are not there to gratify the national ego. Similar proof acts are part of Law in every one of the other thirteen nations who are signed up to the CIP. Germany, in particular, has a proof house in EVERY state of its Federal Republic, each with their own unique identification stamp.

SAAMI, on the other hand, much quoted in US gun press, is a civilian society of arms and ammunition manufacturers whose data are provisional recommendations, NOT legal requirements, and as such, are unenforceable in law. I must stress that as far as can be determined, every US firearms manufacturer actually DOES test their product as part of the finishing process, and might or might not make a mark to show that it has been done - again, there is no legal requirement to do so. Given that there is no physical evidence, in most cases, I'll take advisement on this one.

Notwithstanding the oft-times lack of a proof mark on any US-made gun, and given the litiginous nature of the American way of life, to sell a product that is likely to blow up in the face of the shooter is the surefire way to company bankruptcy.
 

·
Supporting Member
Joined
·
11,973 Posts
Just curious! What is that hole for on the Rear Sight Barrel Ring?

03
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,628 Posts
Just curious! What is that hole for on the Rear Sight Barrel Ring?

03
Sniper, It's a pressure relief hole just like most every centerfire rifle ever made has.
Look below the windage turret in the picture. You will see the same type of hole on this Savage 12 action.




 

·
Supporting Member
Joined
·
11,973 Posts
TX
That makes perfect sense! I guess it just looked so much different on that military Rifle and seemed to be farther forward than normal in the picture. And certainly not clean hole like the one on the newer Savage. Looked pretty rough in the Military Rifle picture I guess that is also why I questioned it.
Very nice rifle in your picture although the wrong side of the weapon for me!:p
03
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
TX
That makes perfect sense! I guess it just looked so much different on that military Rifle and seemed to be farther forward than normal in the picture. And certainly not clean hole like the one on the newer Savage. Looked pretty rough in the Military Rifle picture I guess that is also why I questioned it.
Very nice rifle in your picture although the wrong side of the weapon for me!:p
03
it just wasn't cleaned up, it was full of gunk ^^' cleaned it afterwards though... seems like my grandfather didn'T do much maintenance on it in a long time. i guess he was just cleaning the barrel once in a while...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,050 Posts
1. The requirement for gun proof that seems to have amused c3shooter so much has been a legal requirement in England, and until the turn of the last century, Ireland [then all of it was under British management], since 1813. I'm a bit bemused that it should be deemed unusual but then the USA is so so big that it has never had a single state proof house, let alone a national one. BTW, the UK has only two now, Birmingham, once THE centre of the gun trade, and London, where most of the big names still are located.

2. The requirement for gun proof is written into law, not only here in UK, but in thirteen other nations who manufacture firearms for sporting purposes, under the auspices of the CIP, an organisation that regulates the safety of the production of both arms AND ammunition, setting standards in both dimensions and performance for ammunitions, and compliance with safe manufacture for guns.

3. As such, every US-made non-military firearm intended for sporting or leisure entering any of the fourteen CIP member nations must be subjected to gun proof before they can be sold commercially. Needless to say, CIP inter-national standards are accepted within the circle of members.

And BTW, BNP stands for BIRMINGHAM Nitro Proof, not 'British'. The 2.222" is the chamber length and the 18.5 TONS PER INCH is the test pressure. These markings were taken into use in 1954, but are now discontinued. The crown over crossed sceptres with a mix of letters would tell me the date of the proof. I'll be charitable and ignore the miss-spelling of the word 'proof' to read 'poof'.

Please note, for future reference, that the Proof Acts are actually put there by Parliament and are not there to gratify the national ego. Similar proof acts are part of Law in every one of the other thirteen nations who are signed up to the CIP. Germany, in particular, has a proof house in EVERY state of its Federal Republic, each with their own unique identification stamp.

SAAMI, on the other hand, much quoted in US gun press, is a civilian society of arms and ammunition manufacturers whose data are provisional recommendations, NOT legal requirements, and as such, are unenforceable in law. I must stress that as far as can be determined, every US firearms manufacturer actually DOES test their product as part of the finishing process, and might or might not make a mark to show that it has been done - again, there is no legal requirement to do so. Given that there is no physical evidence, in most cases, I'll take advisement on this one.

Notwithstanding the oft-times lack of a proof mark on any US-made gun, and given the litiginous nature of the American way of life, to sell a product that is likely to blow up in the face of the shooter is the surefire way to company bankruptcy.
Thank you, I found that helpful.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tac foley
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top