No Electronics

Discussion in 'Survival & Sustenance Living Forum' started by markerdown, Jul 11, 2009.

  1. markerdown

    markerdown New Member

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    Interesting observation:

    I'm out early this morning with my two gsp's doing some birdwork. The two young guys I'm with are marking the hidden bird launchers with their GPS. I normally just use plastic tape on a shrub near the launcher and remove when the bird is popped.

    We went thru about 6 birds and were back at the truck. The talk turned to terrain, distance and navigation. I pulled out a topo map of the area and my old trusty GI compass. They pulled out their whiz-bang GPS with mapping.

    I got to thinkin'; what if we had a massive solar flare that took out the satellites. No cell phones, no satellite communications at all, no texting, no GPS etc etc. These guys couldn't survive without their electronic gizmos, no less do long division.

    Could you survive? I know I can :D......................markerdown
     
  2. Shotgun Shooter

    Shotgun Shooter New Member

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    I could survive for a limited amount of time. I know my area pretty well within 20 miles each way, maybe even 40-50 miles south of me.

    S.S.
     

  3. indy_kid

    indy_kid New Member

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    No problem...

    I'm sure "these guys" can learn to use a compass and topo map if the need were to arise. But why not use the gizmos if they're available? They're fun to use, and can store data from multiple trips. How many routes can you store on your paper map without them becoming illegible? 10, 20? The GPS might store 100.

    The Amish seem to have little problem living the "simple life". Would you like to spend a week or two with them? How about a month, or a year? I suspect the Amish might consider you to be as helpless without all of your low-tech gear (car, electricity, landlines, etc.) as you consider those two without the hi-tech gear.
     
  4. markerdown

    markerdown New Member

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    When it comes to me and the outdoors, the Amish ain't got nuthin on me, I've been there, bring em' on .................markerdown
     
  5. innezka

    innezka New Member

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    i hate gps. in the states it takes the hardest route and gets itself lost (unless its just the model i bought) and in country (im currently serving in afghanistan) it drove me off a cliff twice. when ever i marching around out here i always take a map and compass. nothing beats good old fashion land nav with a map. gps will only get you so far. it relies on satalites which i saw one post saying those could be taken out... so true, and they need power. what happens when you get lost and lose power when your trying to get back? i doubt most people bring extra batterys.
     
  6. Ubergopher

    Ubergopher New Member

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    I spent my fair share of time outside the wire in Afghanistan and one thing I ALWAYS brought with me was 4 extra AA batteries for my PEC-14, NODs, and M-68. Maybe you're so loaded down with extra gear that those 4 extra batteries would break your spirits, but I always carried them in the pocket by my boots.

    Oh and as for the giving directions thing, my GPS (Garmin eTrex Legend) has never lead me astray.
     
  7. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    Give me a topo map, compass and altimeter and I can pinpoint my location anywhere on the face of the earth.
     
  8. caniswalensis

    caniswalensis New Member

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    I don't need a bunch of fancy electronic gear or maps......

    Just "Google Earth!" :D
     
  9. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    Knowing land navigation is something everyone should learn, but buying USGS maps of every area you travel through would be more expensive than buying a cheap GPS....and extra batteries.
     
  10. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

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    Last fall when I was flying as a pilot for the first time in several years I was having a discussion about navigation with my instructor pilot. He was saying the new 172's are great because they have moving map GPS and when flying you always need a backup and demonstrates how to use the alternate GPS antenna. It's at this point that I mention this is the first plane I have ever flown that has GPS, this shocked him he said he has never flown a plane without GPS. I asked what would you do if GPS were turned off or worse, intentionally offset to confuse people. He knows how to use VOR and other navigation types but only because he is an instructor pilot, most students today rely soley on GPS which is kind of scary to me. It's a single point of failure and you should learn alternative ways. I can use VOR's or everyone's favorite IFR (I fly roads/rivers) so I think I would be ok.
     
  11. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    Indeed, all I need is a compass, map and landmarks. Hell if I can find my way out of a damn jungle, where you have to climb trees to see where the hell you are and deserts full of sand dunes and salt plains and the Rocky mountains, I figure I'm good to go here or on any continent. Now the ocean, I will admit I am no seadog, may have some problems there.
     
  12. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    I got my Private Pilots License in 1974 and there was no GPS back then - strictly VOR station tracking, a good chronograph, and visual checkpoints. I flew VFR in 150's and then the newer 152's. My Dad had a Mooney Ranger with dual transponders and while GPS was available, he never saw it necessary to spend the money - he was not IFR rated, but flew all over the country. All I ever knew was a map and a plotter... although my first 3-leg solo x-country flight was a bit nerve-racking, it was a great learning experience. GPS vs. VFR is the same scenario as when calculators first hit the scene. As kids got used to using calculators they lost the ability to think and extrapolate - all they know are keystroke sequences!
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2009
  13. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    Yep. a lot of your older pilots, UUGH.....older than you and me, fly using map of the earth navigation, with few instruments. Them older bush pilots in Alaska do it quite frequently.
     
  14. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    I don't think I would fly in a private plane with anyone younger...I had to learn an awful lot in ground school with regards to computing weight and balance, cloud formations, fronts, plotting courses, and knowing emergency procedures. Somehow I doubt that today's technology is the "do-all and end-all" everyone makes it out to be - sometimes good old fashioned "knowledge" counts for more...
     
  15. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    An altimeter really helps with terrain association when you're in mountainous terrain. Once, we were 2 peaks over from where we thought we were. If it weren't for the altimeter, we would have been lima mike foxtrot.
     
  16. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    Affirmative, just never had much use of one, old school. :)
     
  17. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    Damn flat landers. :D
     
  18. stalkingbear

    stalkingbear Well-Known Member

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    I've never used a GPS yet to this day, always relying on the "old fashioned" way I learned as a "kid". GPS is something i keep saying I'm going to get, but never do.
     
  19. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

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    I think as for emergency procedures, not much has changed. The checklist out of a 1979 172 manual I have is almost identical to a current year 172 except for some minor changes that have happened to the plane and the electronics are different. Pilots are still trained in emergency landing and to always be thinking about where to land should the engine fail at that moment. But reliance on electronics could be a problem. Heck the current 172's connect to ground radar to provide traffic avoidance alerts(not 100% accurate) but its amazing all the tech in these planes, but you can still turn all electronics off and the plane flys the same.

    Weight and balance, yea there have been changes, while a student they teach you how to do it pen and paper but in reality, you use an online calculator setup for the exact plane, if you even do it at all, but pilots have skipped that even before there were radios in planes.

    Weather, I think your right, we rely on radar and websites to provide the weather more often. I've canceled flights before because as I'm at the plane the wind is too strong and gusty for me to feel comfortable to fly but the weather report says 5 knots steady. Some pilots trust the tech 100% and that's where the common sense and knowledge come into play.
     
  20. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    That's the ticket. If you can't figure out where you are or where you want to be and how to get there with a topographical map and a compass, you shouldn't have left your house IMO. (Although without a means to determine latitude and longitude, I question your ability to pinpoint your position anywhere on the face of the earth. Celestial navigation will help, but without knowing the time of day you don't have all the information you need.)

    Don't get me wrong -- GPS is really handy and electronics are a lot of fun. But if you become dependent on them, you could be screwed.

    How many folks other than me also own purely mechanical automatic watches (no quartz movement)? Go buy a Seiko 5 sport watch for $70 and you'll be able to tell the time should something in your area/region fry electronics.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2009