Nice day at the range...

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by Quentin, Aug 25, 2011.

  1. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    ... but I had my first failure to extract with my S&W/Daniel Defense build. Over the last month or so I'd gone pretty close to 500 rounds of steel case without cleaning and had been noticing the spent cases were looking real crappy so it wasn't a big surprise. I had to kick out the stuck case with a cleaning rod, then twirled around the chamber brush and finished shooting with no other incident. Anyway my DD is no longer 100%! :eek: :p

    So now I'm not gonna have a "filthy 14" myself and will do a little more cleaning now. Not a big deal, I just wanted to know. Also my ArmaLite is kicking out cases that look just as crappy though it still never has had a malfunction. But I'm going to clean both ARs well tomorrow. I'm sure both would have gone a lot longer using brass cased ammo but at the price of steel case I'll continue using it for the bulk of my shooting.

    ETA:
    Also took my 1913 Luger and put 100 rounds of Federal Champion through it. Not one malf! My buddy who never shot a Luger before couldn't believe it, almost 99 years old and still functioning like a new gun. (It's a mixed numbers gun so no collector's item.) And we fired my Glock 23 a little, my Taurus MillPro 9mm with no malfs. My buddy had more trouble, his Ruger P345 was having magazine problems and not picking up the next round very well. Happened on two mags so not sure what was going on. We also fired his Ruger 22/45 and it's a great little pistol.

    All in all a fun day and we came back too tired to clean guns. Watched Full Metal Jacket and drank beer instead! :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2011
  2. neilage66

    neilage66 New Member

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    Nice to believe that some of our weapons might be enjoyed long after we are gone by patriots of the future.

    We are nothing but caretakers of history.

    I love shooting the old stuff.
     

  3. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    A range day is always a good day. Sorry to hear about your FTE.

    I've been torturing mine mixing brass and steel, even letting others abuse them. GTG so far.

    What steel are you using?
     
  4. CHLChris

    CHLChris New Member

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    Hey, guys, do you ever clean out your gas system? I'd rather never deal with that, but I'm wondering if that is ever necessary.
     
  5. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    I have never cleaned a gas tube.
     
  6. Bushman

    Bushman Member

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    Me either. If I had problems I would prolly shoot some brake clean down it and finish with some shop air.
     
  7. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    Nope, don;t expect to ever clean the gas tube.

    MJ, most of the steel case was Tula and Herter's (rebadged Tula I believe). I'll be curious how far you get with your test, especially since I know you largely use Tula as well. My test had very little brass case. I'd also like to know how bad your spent steel case looks. I'll try to soon get a picture of the casing that wouldn't eject from my DD.

    ETA:
    I've noticed my DD has a fairly tight chamber and it does gunk up sooner than my ArmaLite which has a sloppy chamber that bulges the brass more than I'd like to see. But now I know it does go further without cleaning so you learn something every day!

    After a good chamber cleaning both ARs spit out steel case that looks pretty clean but by 100 rounds the spent cases are gunked up and just keep looking worse as the round count increases. I'll just pay a little more attention to the bore and be all right.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2011
  8. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    I'll pay closer attention to how the spent cases look next time. I'll be doing all brass this weekend (3gun, steel targets). Thinking back to this past Sunday all the steel was nice and clean w/ little to no marring on the rim.

    In two weeks I head back out to the range that allows steel and I'll dump as many rounds as time allows through the DD and see what happens. Maybe there won't be any crazy ladies out there firing during cease fires while I'm changing targets.
     
  9. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    Thanks MJ, no rush at all. I'm curious but in no hurry so don't make a special trip. Two weeks, a month, two months it's all the same - I'm retired. :D

    I will get a good picture of that casing soon. Have company in town so pretty busy.
     
  10. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    I put my camera in macro mode and got a good pic of the Herters steel case that failed to extract. Even though it's gunked up it should have extracted.

    Looking at the rim, the extractor sure didn't bite into the case at all. You'd expect a strong extractor to rip at the rim and looking close I can hardly tell where the extractor grabbed it. Looks like it's time to order a couple BCM extractor upgrade kits. Maybe I should add an upper to the order. :p

    Anyway I think I'm on track with the problem now. First time I've had any time to really look at the issue. I don't use an O-ring or Defender and no doubt that would have helped in this case but I'd rather try a new extractor, spring and insert first.

    I need to compare the extractors in the DD and ArmaLite since the latter never has had any malfunction and spent steel case from it look as bad or worse. Neither AR tears up the rim so I can be pretty sure the timing of extraction/and gas system function is good - dwell time, gas port size, buffer, etc.

    Anyway I've learned a lesson here, no matter how good you think your gun is, check it over to be sure - and put a lot of rounds down the pipe. I probably should have caught this before but there was no hint of a problem until there was a problem.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2011
  11. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    I am sure none of my cases looked like that.

    I agree, we shouldn't assume our rifles are GTG based on a core sample no matter how large that sample is or who the sample includes. I'm going to keep going w/o cleaning ( minus the lenses of the lights :)) until mine give up the ghost to get a feel for the rifles themselves. Another "good" reason to go to the range.

    I'll take some pic next time.
     
  12. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    No rush MJ. I would be interested in how your ejected steelcase looks after a few hundred rounds. Both my ArmaLite and DD look like this with Herters/Tula.

    With so many here who have problems with steel case this could be a good thread to compare pictures of how gunked up our cases look.
     
  13. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    Thats a great idea. I'm closing in on 1k this month not counting brass. I've been running a combonation of the two trying to cause a problem. No luck so far. But now that I said something I'll have a horrible malfunction next outing.
     
  14. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    I still haven't cleaned the Daniel Defense other than a quick brushing of the chamber so I'm going to do a little test. I put back on the O-ring that came with my DD BCG and will continue shooting steel case without cleaning until I get another FTE. I'll keep an eye on the spent casing and rims too. I hope to get to the range this weekend.

    MJ, did you leave your DD O-ring in?
     
  15. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    Chris,

    Regarding your question about cleaning the Gas Tube. I have close to 30,000 rounds through my first Rock River Elite Car A-4. I have never cleaned the gas tube nor replaced it. I certainly have rebarreled her however due to throat erosion for just shooting a H--L of a lot of rounds over time. Oh she is also 10 years old. Any way I do have a theory on the Gas Tube. And that is since the Gas Port is on the top side of the barrel under the Front Sight Housing, Gas Block or whatever. I instruct to always clean with the Front Sight Housing on the barrel in the UP Position. Think about it! If you are running solvents and cleaners like Hoppes, Shooters Choice, or what ever solvent you use on the inside of the barrel. If you clean with the Front Sight in the Down Position and then you add gravity and the hydraulic effect of the suction of the wet soaked patch being pushed through the bore. No doubt some of that solvent is probably being squirted if you please, down into the Gas Port Hole and into the Gas Tube. So I always instruct to clean with the Front Sight in the up position. Obviously with solvent in the Gas Port and Gas Tube it could easily turn into a carbon build up. Another little note for our friends is that good Gas Tubes are Stainless. That also is the difference of some of the cheap ones coming in from out of the USA. Never clean the Carrier Key with a Q-Tip !! Pipe Cleaners are OK~

    03
     
  16. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    I have not. It is how it came from DD.
     
  17. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    Ah, thanks. I didn't get my DD BCG from smartgunner, I already had one from Grant and it came with the O-ring installed. I removed it straight away but now I'm going to test it installed.

    ETA:
    Just ordered the BCM SOPMOD bolt upgrade kit and a 3-pack extractor spring upgrade kit, they're good to have on hand. It's one of those things I kept forgetting to add to previous orders.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2011
  18. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    Boy, BCM doesn't mess around when shipping. I got my extractor kit yesterday! But went to a whiskey tasting party so forgot to check the mail until today about 2AM. Not doing so well today :rolleyes: so will let the hangover pass before installing the new extractor. :p I should be old enough to know better! :D