Nfa wtf?

Discussion in 'NFA/Class 3 & FFL Discussion' started by 1919A4, Nov 12, 2010.

  1. 1919A4

    1919A4 New Member

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    OK, long story short, I sent a seller full payment for a machine gun a month and a half ago, with the expectation that he was going to transfer it quickly to my dealer.

    Checked with my dealer today, who called BATF, only to find out that no transfer paperwork for this gun has ever been received by them. They did confirm that the seller actually owns the gun, which is good, but still...I gave nearly twenty grand to a guy and he apparently hasn't taken step #1 towards getting the gun I paid for to me.

    Any suggestions on this one?
     
  2. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    20k makes it felony fraud federal offense. since he is a class title owner the stf wont be happy about it. might try contacting him and see what the deal is. if no luck after that might try a law enforcement agency since they tend to take that sum seriously if a full auto weapon is involved.
     

  3. 1919A4

    1919A4 New Member

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    I don't think (hope) we're to that point yet. Seller's been fairly responsive up to this point, but I'm waiting to hear back from him now.

    It just kills me that I now have more waiting ahead of me as essentially the transfer process hasn't even started. At this rate, I'll be lucky to take final possession by early summer.
     
  4. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    well yeah the law route would be last resort. thats why i suggested trying to talk again :)
     
  5. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    For $20K, we would be having a phone conversation right about now. Before it develops into the "time to come to Jesus" conversation, find out what is happening. It is not inconcievable that he has submitted paperwork- You MUST have dealt with the BATFE before- and their record is not always impressive.

    But we WOULD be having a talk.......
     
  6. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    This is not where you can drive to visit the person and see the weapon prior to buying it?

    I am cautious enough just buying regular firearms on line. Now your talking $20k and a Class III. You are a brave sole man. Keep us updated. He would need that Class III if he took $20 K from me. But if I blew $20k on a gun my wife would more than likely have it set up and hose my *** down with hot lead as I arrived home from work to spend time with it.
     
  7. 1919A4

    1919A4 New Member

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    I have an e-mail and phone call into the seller now and am waiting for him to respond. I'm still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but if he didn't file the paperwork, I'm going to be pissed. I've done 5 or 6 other transfers and not personally had BATFE issues yet, but I know that it can happen.

    As to checking the seller out beforehand, he lives a ways from me, but I did my due diligence and I know where he lives, what his other full-time job is and where he works, and I got references from other machine gunners who know him. I knew that he is who he says that he is before doing the deal so I wasn't worried. But now...
     
  8. tcustoms

    tcustoms New Member

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    Ive had some really funky dealings since becoming an 07/C2 SOT. Seem's like lots of them have major money issues.

    There were a couple that I would have sworn were lying but the paperwork proved they were in fact telling the truth. I hope in your case its just a mistake.
     
  9. 1919A4

    1919A4 New Member

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    As an update, the seller's gotten back in touch with me, I'm convinced that there was a good-faith error somewhere along the line, and the seller's magnanimously tossed in some extra stuff to make up for the delay. We're back in process--starting from day #1 again, and with any luck, I'll eventually get my new shooter some time in late spring...(sigh).
     
  10. NWBuckeye

    NWBuckeye New Member

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    How about some more info.

    1st. off, it is up to ATF to do the transfer, not the Dealer. Transfers are taking 2-6 weeks on Form 3's alone. I'm Not sticking up for them, but we need more info. Just because ATF can't locate it right off doesn't mean they don't have it. Did the Dealer Fax the Transfer in or mail it?
    2nd., ask the dealer for a Confirmation that the paperwork was indeed sent in, and when?. I take it that you know the serial number correct?. Call ATF to inquire as to the transfer status again, and let us know what you find. Good luck.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2010
  11. spittinfire

    spittinfire New Member Supporter

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    I would call him and explain to him that I have been waiting for the weapon and that it's paid in full. I would also let him know that you will be calling on a regular basis to check on the status of the transfer(at which point I would call every other day, or daily if needed). If that doesn't get anything started I would get all my ducks in a row for legal action and make one last phone call to the guy explaining that.
     
  12. 1919A4

    1919A4 New Member

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    Finally!

    This has to be a new record for a Form THREE transfer. Paid the money in September and just received the complete firearm YESTERDAY.

    Looking at the sum total of events, the problem wasn't ATF--it was this guy just not doing what he was supposed to when he was supposed to.

    The seller, after much dithering and many calls/e-mails from me, finally sent me the receiver group to the gun in December, but it came without the barrel assembly, which he said he was shipping separately to "save on shipping".

    Days turned into weeks, and he stopped returning my e-mails or taking my calls. But I'd done my homework and knew where he worked, so I started calling there. After a week of daily calls to his office, he had his secretary promise me that the barrel assembly would be shipped immediately, and four days later, it showed up...and it was dark and pitted and the gas piston was frozen in place from carbon and corrosion. Total piece of crap.

    I suspect that he took whatever good barrel assembly that was on the gun and either kept it for one of his other guns or sold it, and when I kept making a fuss, he tossed me this boat anchor.

    But at least I now have my complete gun (pending the Form 4 transfer to me) and I'm done dealing with this guy.

    Moral of the story: check your sellers out. Get references if possible and make sure that you know where they work or live, not just their FFL business address. I was actually planning a trip next month to see him because my job was going to have me in that area for a couple of weeks, and you can believe that it wouldn't have been a pleasant discussion when I dropped in on him.

    Thanks for the suggestions and advice. be careful out there with your big-dollar purchases.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2011
  13. dog2000tj

    dog2000tj New Member

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  14. willfully armed

    willfully armed New Member

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    Was your payment sent on the terms that you were buying a functional gun? NOT something that was wore out and siezed up?

    With 20k and an nfa on the line, that would be something for the ATF to get a call about. A fraudulent interstate weapons transaction is SERIOUS time.

    I hope you aren't content to lay down and accept it for what it is


    (I happen to be in regular contact with an ATF agent who specializes in cases such as this, if interested)
     
  15. 1919A4

    1919A4 New Member

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    A pic. :cool:

    [​IMG]

    And the barrel assembly was salvageable and is functional. It's just on the bottom tier and he either didn't take care to clean it after the last few firings or he just sent the worst barrel that he had. But after I took the gas assembly apart and gave it a detailed cleaning, I have no doubt that it will still work. The rest of the gun is in better shape, to be fair. Overall, I'm still not terribly unhappy based on the sale price, and the gun's going to be heading out to Desert Ordnance for the E4 upgrade and that's going to put a new barrel on it anyway.

    Still, it should not have taken nearly four months to complete this Form three transfer, especially that last month of waiting on the barrel that could have been sent with the gun and then being ducked by the guy until I tracked him down and brought his full-time non-gun-related workplace into it.

    Based on something I heard from someone else who knows him slightly, it's sounding more and more like he had a case of seller's remorse and was dithering on the shipping hoping I'd demand my money back and move on. When that didn't work. it looks like he was trying to save a few hundred bucks by skimming the barrel and hoping that I'd just call it a day.

    Persistence pays off, though, as does knowing who you are dealing with. Before I even agreed to the purchase, I'd checked him out and knew who he was, what he did, and where he worked and lived. I knew that I could reach out and touch him if I needed to, even though at the time I never anticipated any trouble. In this case, the guy has a professional license for his main source of income, and once I started calling around that office, he couldn't duck me just by not answering my e-mails or phone calls.

    And if that failed, I still had a Plan C in the form of a couple of friends down his way who were willing to stop by in person and ask for my stuff.