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Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by Army11B S5, Jul 16, 2008.
Savage Arms 12ABT varm. rifle in a .308-good/or no good? Is there a better rifle for the price?
So I realize I am totally new to the civi world and have no real knowledge of civi made rifles. I would like to get into matchs and comp., but obviously that is a ways away. I need to learn to make my own rounds upgrade..bla bla
For Now... I would like to get some input on some of you experianced people on which direction to go. Thanks and I look forward to your comments
Well, personally, I don't know of any competition shooter that is fielding a Savage action out of our shop. We turn out several in hunting rifles, but I haven't even seen this outlandish stock contraption you reference above. That is quite, eh, "flashy" to say the least.
It would appear you have military experience, so what have you been exposed to? Do you have Sharpshooter/Sniper background training, or basic Rifleman? What is your criteria for the rifle you would like to purchase? Do you have budgetary concerns? It would appear you want a .308 boltgun, but what beyond that are you looking for?
A: yes i have my S5 identifier.
A: I know very little because I am very new with only my S5 school, I obviously know my R700 quite well and all other US "tracking & counter tracking rifles" after that... I got nothing. I love shooting and seem to have God given tallent with shooting, because prior to service I didn't do any long shooting. I am humble in the since that I know nothing after US mil. grade weapons and I still have lots of knowledge to aquire.
Q: I know savage straight out of the box is no comp. firearm, however It would be quite some time till I would even show my face at any real comp. I dont even load my own rounds yet or even have the knowledge to start, but back to just the rifle... I would like to get into tacticle shooting matchs some time, some day. I run off of a limited Sgt. salary budget so I only mentioned the above weapons/firearms because they were cheep and reliable or so i was told. After that I am open to anything. I just need to concentrate on rifle first.... then ill have to re-save up and go optics... then re-save and do upgrades. So with that being said, I am open to anything and all ears!
P.S. I also said savage because I have heard nothing but good things about accutrigger.
Sako TRG prehaps?
Well, the trigger is only one small part of the set-up, so if you are worried about that, a drop in trigger would be a better way to go. Don't buy a whole new stick based on the trigger that comes with it, that is a very small piece of the equation.
In about 5 or 6 hours a good friend of mine, cpttango30, here on the site who is a Remington fanatic is going to stop by and tell you a couple of good deals on the civilian Remington rifles. I am not a big fan, but that is beside the point. You already know the set up and are familiar with the unit, so that is an option.
Weatherby is turning out their Vanguard models in a Sub-MOA package guarenteed from the factory. This particular one is available with the #3 contour barrel, which is a little light for competition in my mind in .308, but it is guarenteed to shoot .99 inch at 100 yards with factory ammo. That is no small feat actually, since they have no idea of the shooter in question, that is pretty good for a factory stick. I am sure with your background you can get it to shoot a little better right out of the box. Price is good, about $750-$850 across the net, I am sure you can find a better deal if you put some work into it.
Outside of that, I would say Tikka is a possibility, but they are a bit more expensive, especially for one that can match the performance of the Weatherby from the factory.
There are other, cheaper rifles out there, but then you get into having to do something to them right away if you want them to shoot well. I would, of course, recommend you give us a call and your credit card number, we will build one for you from the ground up, but you would be looking at some serious cash up front, so take that for what it's worth.
Sure - If you have about $2500 plus to throw down, Sako makes a great gun. If you are going to spend that kind of money though, you really need to talk to a gunsmith about getting a custom model built...
OK… Now were communicating!! I am interested in ether a company build or personal built. Everyone is always looking for the cheapest Bigger Better Deal & I’m not any difference. This is what I am looking for… any ideas (STILL OPEN TO ANYONE AND EVERYONE)
-A combination of tactical long range rifle matches, but also practical for both urban and field environments. (For Police Department & Military Use)
- I was thinking 7mm Rem. Mag or .308 (open for ideas)
…………..and now THE AGE OLD QUESTION:……………
What is the biggest bang for my buck and where do I go to look for the best deals
.308 is the most common. Generally we don't see a lot of people with their own .308 get a job with a police force and use their own rifle as a service rifle.
Depending on the competition that you are planning on one day entering, that would greatly play on the caliber that you are going to get.
1,000 Yard Benchrest - you don't want a .308 or a 7mm Mag
Across the course gun? Possibly a 7mm mag, but that is a lot of weight and/or punishment to be lugging from station to station.
The FBI HRT Team is currently fielding 7mm Rem Mags on a Remington Action a 26" heavy barrel. But, they are usually green lit at longer distances than your normal police sharpshooter.
Traditionally, the average of S/S involved police shootings are around 71 yards - though the last stats I saw were from 2006, so that may have crept out a bit, but I doubt it's past 90 yards.
At that distance the 7mm Rem hasn't even calmed down yet and will likely take the head clean off a target. I would go with the .308 for these ranges. It's common, it's easily defendable ( in court ) and it's what everyone else is using. Not to mention you are already familiar with the ballistics of the round.
In a factory, barreled rifle action, with a warranty and an accuracy guarantee, I would be hard pressed to put you in anything that can touch the Weatherby Vanguard / HOWA listed above. Out of the box tuned performance, plus you get accuracy with factory ammo and don't need to hand load right away. That is a good bang for your buck option.
A custom build is going to run you $1,000 ( or more depending on the 'Smith )plus parts - anything like fluting the barrel, special bedding or custom stuff ( muzzle break, weight management on the stock ) is going to run more. For $1K plan on getting your choice of products put together, the action blue printed , a trigger job to your specs, your optics mounted in place and someone to give you some basic advice.
In the projects section you will see my Winchester Sniper Rig in .308. I had that Krieger Barrel purchased ( $ 300 or so ) and then had the chamber cut ( $350 ) specifically for the specs on Federal Gold Medal Match ammo. That way I don't have to reload, my chamber is cut specifically for the specs of the off the shelf ammo. It shoots sub MOA all day long and will shoot 1/4 MOA when I do my part. I also have a lot of extra toys on there that add up pretty quick.
I think the best bet would be set a price that you want to spend on the rifle - do not include the optics, because that is another headache, but how much do you REALLY want to spend on the rifle? From there, I am sure we can get you in the ballpark with something you will like....
If you have $1K to start with, I would suggest the Weatherby out of the box, get as good a deal as you can by paying cash to a local dealer, use what's left to get as good a scope as you can.....
If you can buy the rifle and put $1K into it, I would suggest using it in optics first. You are going to get SUB-MOA accuracy with it right from the factory, may as well have a really good scope....
If you can buy the rifle and scope you want, and have a $1K to work around, then I would suggest talking to a good smith because that puts you in the $2K to $2500 range where the really sweet customs begin to hang out...
get the savage it will outshoot pretty much any other rifle on the market prettymuch all savage bolt action centerfire rifles are designed off the savage model 110 AND feild and stream called it the most accurate of the shelf rifle in the world i own several savage arms rifles and all have been nothing less than perfect and yes the accutrigger is good too. and also i passed up a new wetherby rifle that was marked down to 400 dollars to buy my savage model 114 american classic for 650 dollars.
One thing you might do before buying a weapon is attend a few long range matches and see what people are using, also talk to some of the shooters. Many are more then glad to boast a little.
Source? I would have to seriously question that article. "The most accurate off the shelf rifle in the world"? Really? I kind of doubt that since "off the shelf" means production and there are hundreds of production weapons that will shoot circles around a Savage all day long.
Not only would I disagree with that statement, I would flat have to insist the writer actually take more than one weapon to the range before making such a broad brush statement.
Perhaps the writer meant the most accurate off the shelf rifle in it's price class, in which case I would still have to insist on seeing a list of what the shooter compared on the day of this epithany....
No doubt Savages are good accuate rifles. Remington's are too same with Howa/Vanguards. There are many different types of rifles out there.
If you want to shoot f-class I would get the savage F-class in 308 to start out with.
It really all depends on what you want to do and at how far you are going to do it at.
The 1000 yard world record is something like 3" That right there is some crazy good accuracy. You put that gun on the line at a 200 yard shoot and it would more than likely come in dead last as the loads, rifle and shooter are taylored to 1000 yards.
There are many forms of shooting compatitions out there you need to pick the one you want to do start with a stock class rifle and work your way up. Enter some local shoting matches because you are not going to get any better jsut sitting on a bench and shooting ow you want to shoot. You need to see how it is done for real and then train your self to shoot the way they want you to shoot.
Each class has a set standard and equipment that works for that class it might work for other classes as well but there is no one rifle that will be a compatition rifle. Dillinger and I do not always see eye to eye on rifles but he has a ton of knowladge and he is right on in what he is saying here.