Firearms Talk banner
61 - 80 of 88 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,132 Posts
I wonder if they include 14 yo gang bangers in they’re research? I mean it really doesn’t matter what gun stores sell in the name of safety when kids in Chicago can buy guns on a street corner. Anyway I would never waste my time reading anything Everytown puts out.
I don't think 14yo gang bangers were included, or the numbers would have been 10X more maybe. The people in Chicago will tell you, that if the guns were not coming from Indiana, Wisconsin, and other states illegally, they wouldn't have as bad of a problem.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,620 Posts
Yea they might say that but that doesn’t make it true. Its always fascinating when people blame others for problems that they could easily fix .
 

·
Premium Member
G42 G43x P95DC CZ82 Mak CZ70 AR etc.
Joined
·
5,686 Posts
Yea they might say that but that doesn’t make it true. Its always fascinating when people blame others for problems that they could easily fix .
Guns in Chicago are being stolen through out the Midwestern States and taken to Chicago. It is happening here where I live. Also, what about the Army members from Chicago buying guns, legal or not, and driving them back to their own gang members. Several caught by Feds about three months ago down in the SE part of this country. You need to realize how far those Chicago Gangs operate. They are not dumb kids by a long shot.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,741 Posts
Discussion Starter · #65 ·
Now we have a butt load of new gun buyers (probably getting ready for the civil war) and they might need to be reminded of gun safety. I don't think a $3 lock will break the bank and drive a gun seller out of business, and like mentioned before, the cost will be passed along to the buyer.
You still don't get it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,620 Posts
I wonder if they include 14 yo gang bangers in they’re research? I mean it really doesn’t matter what gun stores sell in the name of safety when kids in Chicago can buy guns on a street corner. Anyway I would never waste my time reading anything Everytown puts out.
I'm wondering the same thing here.

Case in point, if twonsrug dealers shoot each other in a a hool zone, they count that as a school shooting. Even a suicide in the parking lot at 0300 is counted.

Itnwoukd oove to see Everytown's sources, and how they collect data.

Party foul against Mainiack for quoting from a blatantly anti 2A group, in a gun forum, but, I do agree in part, that new owners should seek education when it comes to safety.

Lost a friend in a similar manner. 18 YO who shot him.only knew what he saw on film andTV, and was not up to speed. Racked, then dropped the mag, in the Delta Elite that my wife and I now own, and capped a mutual friend in the head as he entered the room.

Training should not be forced, but it should always be sought out.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,620 Posts
Valid points on many things, but sometimes I try not to get into the weeds too much, or try not to judge someone and instead, I consider the country and the ideals that built it. As the saying goes: "I don't necessarily agree with what you say, but I'll fight to the death to protect your right to say it."

I typically refuse to get into arguments on religion, or what the Bible says (because it is contradictory in many cases). Instead, my view is simple enough: a business has or should have the right, to refuse service to anyone they wish. I agree with that idea simply because a business that treats customers poorly most likely won't survive. While word of mouth can help a business, it is equally sharp on the other side of the blade.
I fully agree.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,620 Posts
Guns in Chicago are being stolen through out the Midwestern States and taken to Chicago. It is happening here where I live. Also, what about the Army members from Chicago buying guns, legal or not, and driving them back to their own gang members. Several caught by Feds about three months ago down in the SE part of this country. You need to realize how far those Chicago Gangs operate. They are not dumb kids by a long shot.
We see the same with NY. Many that are traced back to an owner come out of PA and Ohio, get transported in, and sold on the black market, in the cities in NY.

In both states, it's legal to keep a loaded handgun in your vehicle, when not in it, including kist locking one in the console or glove box. As with Florida, vehicle break ins are common in both states, and many end up in the Vampire State.

Happened to a former room mate, who did get it back, as it was his grandfather's 686. NY traced it back to Gramps, found the documentation, and said he could come get it. He passed, and had me contact a friend who is licensed in NY, and holds an FFL, and NY pistol sales license to pick it up, and ship it back to PA.

Had it not been his duty revolver, odds are, he would have told them to keep it, if he was even contacted.

So, as Outlaw pointed out, it does happen. Or do folks really think the gangs get everything locally?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,620 Posts
What is your easy fix for the gun problem in Chicago?
First step is to realize what your problem is. It’s not a gun problem it’s a crime problem. Law enforcement and proper punishment are the easy and only way to deal with crime. Look around the country and see how leniency is working in the cities that have low or no bail. When you take away punishment for crime you will get a lot more of.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,261 Posts
First step is to realize what your problem is. It’s not a gun problem it’s a crime problem. Law enforcement and proper punishment are the easy and only way to deal with crime. Look around the country and see how leniency is working in the cities that have low or no bail. When you take away punishment for crime you will get a lot more of.
Where are carjackings taking place? Demorat cities of course. Read this morning where a dem congresswoman and her husband were carjacked.

Back to gun availability, they always will be, i.e. prohibition didn't work out too well and partying went up same as crime going up when citizens can't protect themselves.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,261 Posts
Guns in Chicago are being stolen through out the Midwestern States and taken to Chicago. It is happening here where I live. Also, what about the Army members from Chicago buying guns, legal or not, and driving them back to their own gang members. Several caught by Feds about three months ago down in the SE part of this country. You need to realize how far those Chicago Gangs operate. They are not dumb kids by a long shot.
Very true Ool. Also, 1911's are being manufactured by peasants in the Central American jungles with files, crude cutting tools and the like into fully functioning guns. They are sold in their distribution network for next to nothing then finally for the ultimate higher amounts to the Chicago gangs. Gangs don't lack for money or guns. They can get anything they want because they aren't in prison and don't care about breaking any law. Liberal DA's should be prosecuted.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,642 Posts
Now we have a butt load of new gun buyers (probably getting ready for the civil war) and they might need to be reminded of gun safety.
Exactly how does one "remind" a criminal or irresponsible idiot about safety?

In the end, criminals don't give a rat's hindquarters that some new ink on paper exists to demand they do something ... a demand that'll get round-filed just like laws declaring murder and robbery to be crimes, same as always. And irresponsible idiots aren't going to magically become Mr. Responsible merely because some desk-pounders 2000mi away are yelling again.

Fact remains, each person still continues to have the responsibility for harms or serious threats he/she causes. Dumping on everybody with regulations doesn't alter that responsibility. There are already statutes holding people accountable for such harms. (Well, at least in places that actually stiffly enforce such. Many places have relaxed the accountability standards, to the point murderers and robbers are getting back on the street to commit new crimes, often within hours of such bliss-ninny releases into communities.)

People who engage in bullying, even murderous threatening of others will find a way. Whether with a gun, a knife, a bat, club or some other useful tool for the purpose. Dumping on Mr. Johnson across the street, or your/my mother, or you/me via criminalizing everything ... well, quite frankly, that doesn't reduce crime.

In short, trite as it might sound to some: we do indeed have a criminal behavior problem, not an inanimate object problem. And would continue to have, even if a given object were to magically disappear overnight.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,261 Posts
Exactly how does one "remind" a criminal or irresponsible idiot about safety?

In the end, criminals don't give a rat's hindquarters that some new ink on paper exists to demand they do something ... a demand that'll get round-filed just like laws declaring murder and robbery to be crimes, same as always. And irresponsible idiots aren't going to magically become Mr. Responsible merely because some desk-pounders 2000mi away are yelling again.

Fact remains, each person still continues to have the responsibility for harms or serious threats he/she causes. Dumping on everybody with regulations doesn't alter that responsibility. There are already statutes holding people accountable for such harms. (Well, at least in places that actually stiffly enforce such. Many places have relaxed the accountability standards, to the point murderers and robbers are getting back on the street to commit new crimes, often within hours of such bliss-ninny releases into communities.)

People who engage in bullying, even murderous threatening of others will find a way. Whether with a gun, a knife, a bat, club or some other useful tool for the purpose. Dumping on Mr. Johnson across the street, or your/my mother, or you/me via criminalizing everything ... well, quite frankly, that doesn't reduce crime.

In short, trite as it might sound to some: we do indeed have a criminal behavior problem, not an inanimate object problem. And would continue to have, even if a given object were to magically disappear overnight.
Any criminal willing to participate in carjacking is likely not able to be rehabilitated especially since such perps have no concept of living within the law because they've never done it. We don't have a carjacking issue where I live but we do have a strong castle doctrine supporting state. Attempting to carjack me and my car will result in very bad consequences, for the perp. They go where they know their victim can't defend themselves. We can all identify those places.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,620 Posts
Yep it kinda seems like carjacking is on the rise and some officials are trying to educate the victims on how to survive the crime. Prosecuting carjacking for the maximum sentence would do a lot more to stop the crime than handing out pamphlets to educate the potential victims. At best even total compliance with a would be carjacker does not guarantee you will survive.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,642 Posts
Any criminal willing to participate in carjacking is likely not able to be rehabilitated especially since such perps have no concept of living within the law because they've never done it. We don't have a carjacking issue where I live but we do have a strong castle doctrine supporting state. Attempting to carjack me and my car will result in very bad consequences, for the perp. They go where they know their victim can't defend themselves. We can all identify those places.
Though, I'd argue that every person can identify every such place where a murderous perp could take advantage of them. Inside the home, garage, back yard, along the neighborhood street, in a town shop, while grocery shopping, while sitting at a restaurant, while awake or asleep. They just largely don't wish to consider it, or admit it, let alone do something about it. Yet, they'll still need to survive an attack long enough to make a call for aid. Isn't much point, if a person can't last that long. Which brings us to self-defense training, skills and tools. Should be a "duh" moment for everybody. Sad, that it isn't. Not that there is a perp behind every bush. But there easily could be, as all it takes for a perp to do his task is to decide turning left or right and attempting such is just the ticket.

I, too, live in a state that doesn't criminalize self-defense. Fairly strong "castle" and "stand your ground" logic in the statutes, with the state effectively tasked with showing it couldn't have been self-defense before indicting. One would think being left to one's own devices would be enough prompting, for the average person. Sad, that it isn't. But that's on them.

New Year's resolution for such folks, for all, ought to be: I refuse to be a victim, and I resolve to take every reasonable step to guard against that. (Yeah, like that's gonna happen. Many have trouble laying down the next Oreo cookie.)

I've occasionally wondered how mini tyrants such as Biden sleep at night. I suspect it's no problem. After all, he's got "a mandate" for doing this sort of thing, even on his own, given he got a few points more than his competitor in the last election. Must be an easy life, with such thinking. He was born, so he has a mandate. He got hired in a temporary role, so he's got a mandate. Livin' "large" with his son's miraculous artwork on every wall, the stash of ginkgo biloba rotting in the pantry, and the framed mandate plaque taped to the refrigerator.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,261 Posts
Yep it kinda seems like carjacking is on the rise and some officials are trying to educate the victims on how to survive the crime. Prosecuting carjacking for the maximum sentence would do a lot more to stop the crime than handing out pamphlets to educate the potential victims. At best even total compliance with a would be carjacker does not guarantee you will survive.
Very true. I am willing to build many more self-sustaining prisons. Self-sustaining like the Louisiana State Penitentiary. Every inmate works for his room and board. Not optional. What's wrong with that? A confined criminal only commits crimes within walls. The three strikes and your out law worked well. It was a no BS law but it removed thousands of criminals from the streets and put them where they belonged. They did have an appeal process. The best thing is not to need a criminal conviction appeal.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,261 Posts
Though, I'd argue that every person can identify every such place where a murderous perp could take advantage of them. Inside the home, garage, back yard, along the neighborhood street, in a town shop, while grocery shopping, while sitting at a restaurant, while awake or asleep. They just largely don't wish to consider it, or admit it, let alone do something about it. Yet, they'll still need to survive an attack long enough to make a call for aid. Isn't much point, if a person can't last that long. Which brings us to self-defense training, skills and tools. Should be a "duh" moment for everybody. Sad, that it isn't. Not that there is a perp behind every bush. But there easily could be, as all it takes for a perp to do his task is to decide turning left or right and attempting such is just the ticket.

I, too, live in a state that doesn't criminalize self-defense. Fairly strong "castle" and "stand your ground" logic in the statutes, with the state effectively tasked with showing it couldn't have been self-defense before indicting. One would think being left to one's own devices would be enough prompting, for the average person. Sad, that it isn't. But that's on them.

New Year's resolution for such folks, for all, ought to be: I refuse to be a victim, and I resolve to take every reasonable step to guard against that. (Yeah, like that's gonna happen. Many have trouble laying down the next Oreo cookie.)

I've occasionally wondered how mini tyrants such as Biden sleep at night. I suspect it's no problem. After all, he's got "a mandate" for doing this sort of thing, even on his own, given he got a few points more than his competitor in the last election. Must be an easy life, with such thinking. He was born, so he has a mandate. He got hired in a temporary role, so he's got a mandate. Livin' "large" with his son's miraculous artwork on every wall, the stash of ginkgo biloba rotting in the pantry, and the framed mandate plaque taped to the refrigerator.
He sleeps during the day and night. There's one answer. He sleeps instead of using critical thinking but that is a skill so it doesn't get used in his case.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,132 Posts
First step is to realize what your problem is. It’s not a gun problem it’s a crime problem. Law enforcement and proper punishment are the easy and only way to deal with crime. Look around the country and see how leniency is working in the cities that have low or no bail. When you take away punishment for crime you will get a lot more of.
Is it really possible to reduce violent crime by tackling it like an infectious disease?

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,132 Posts
Exactly how does one "remind" a criminal or irresponsible idiot about safety?
I thought we were discussing law biding citizens being offered a lock, and maybe reminding them to not let their kids get a hold of a loaded pistol and shoot their brother or sister.
Few examples:
The toddler found the gun, which went off while Lynn was on a Zoom call with co-workers
A handgun went off in the hands of a toddler in a Texas Walmart parking lot Wednesday, wounding the child's mother in the arm and side and young sibling in the leg, police said.
A 5-year-old was shot and killed by his 6-year-old sibling Monday evening in Penn Hills, police said.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,620 Posts
Right violence should not be treated as “ a bad people problem”. Violence should be treated like a disease. Well we’re treating violence like a disease right now and it ain’t working. The refusal by some to see the the obvious causes of our problems usually causes them to linger on and eventually get much worse. We’re watching in real time the consequences of police reform and bail reform and its not working. Violent crimes are committed by bad people and until some people wake up to realize that fact it will go on forever.
 
61 - 80 of 88 Posts
Top