New to AR's want to purchase, need help

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by dallee, Jun 12, 2011.

  1. dallee

    dallee New Member

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    Never owned an AR type gun but want to get one.

    It's going to have to be a budget type AR as I've got about $750 - $800 to put into one.

    Had kind of narrowed it down to a couple but thought I'd get some advice from folks in the know.

    The two I am looking at right now is the Bushmaster Carbon 15 found on Buds here for $699: Bushmaster CAR15 223 16 BSH REDDOT $699.00 SHIPS FREE

    I can't figure out on this particular bushmaster model if it has the chome lines barrel. Are they even needed.

    and a DPMS for $589: DPMS RFA3OC PTHR ORC 16 223 $589.00 SHIPS FREE

    Are there others I should be looking at in this price range? I looked at the Smith & Wesson MP Sportster but its out of stock right now and it had a good price on it but didn't have the forward assist nor the dust cover which I think for my use would be more for look anyways. What I did like about it was the lifetime warrenty whereas bushmaster and DPMS only have a one year.

    I am going to mount optics, red dot most likely, but want to be able to add at least aftermarket flip up sights or something or at least have them on hand in case of a optics failure in a TEOTWAWKI situation. I don't obesess about TEOTWAWKI but like to be prepared. More of a preper I guess. Like if I am going to buy a .22 rifle and put optics on it, I wont buy one unless its got open sights on it even though I never plan on using the open sights.

    Anyway I'd like to get something accurate enough to reach out reliably a couple hundred yards. It will get used some. Probably put 1000 rounds through it until the new wears off then it may see 500 rounds per year after that.

    I'm new on here and appreciate the help, realizing I have no experience at all with AR type weapons. I have several guns but they are all hunting models and pistols.
     
  2. dallee

    dallee New Member

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    I've also noticed in some pics that some people put a red dot on top of the ones that have handles on them. Does it not set up too high? Would you be able to get a bead on something 200 yards away with the scope mounted on top of the handle?
     

  3. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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  4. mmszbi

    mmszbi New Member

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    I'm with Canebrake....build one. Stag Arms A2 flat top, all parts to build lower and buy complete upper, takes about an hour to put together, excellent rifle right in your budget. I did my first AR this way, didn't know squat about them before I did...wouldn't every buy one complete now.
     
  5. russ

    russ New Member

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    +1. I'd steer clear of the Carbon15. Build your own lower and buy an upper that appeals to you.
     
  6. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Well hell. Everyone here knows my stance on this subject, but everyone likes personalized advice to them, so allow me put this broken record on one more time as I love the sound of my own voice. :p

    First the Carbon stuff is not a good idea. The technology is nice, but it's far from reliable, proven or worth the "savings" in weight when you look at a complete gun.

    Now, there is no reason to buy a complete gun in this market right now when you can build one for about the same money, but get better overall components.

    There are literally parts everywhere for AR-15's right now and there is no downside to learning the platform and being able to maintain it yourself.

    You take someone who buys a $1500 gun, they don't know how the damn thing runs, they just know how to load and clean it.

    You take one of our MANY FTF Badge holders who built their own weapon for $800-$1000 and not only will they probably outshoot the other guy, but they will be able to tell you exactly what parts they chose, what benefits those parts bring to their weapon and why they chose brand x over any others out there.

    Build your own. You will be MUCH happier, safer and knowledgeable about the platform, it's abilities and uses.

    There is NO DOWNSIDE to building your own. Well, except they do get addicting. :D

    JD
     
  7. diggsbakes

    diggsbakes New Member

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    As far as the question of whether or not to build your own. Build It. Anyone can do it, just do A LOT of reading and look over many, many pictures and step-by-steps, then ask questions. We love to answer them, but if you do your reading, either from a book (My preferred method and there is several GREAT "AR-15 Assembly Guides" out there.

    As far as Bushmaster, I've heard some claims of poor quality control and customer service, so I won't be using any of their products anytime soon, however, I've got an (now) older "Dissipator" and I love it!!! It's one of my most reliable ARs.

    If you shop right, you can have a great shooting AR for $600-$700 in parts. Just cut where appropriate and spend where needed.

    Good Luck! :)
     
  8. dallee

    dallee New Member

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    Sounds

    Sounds practical and the way I should go. I'm not really mechnically inclined but I always do learn how to break down and service all of my guns completly and have done some trigger and extractor customs to some, so I might be able to get this build stuff down.

    Now I need to go find some books or info on building. Anyone got recomendations on a good site or good book. I don't mind doing the research and will but at this point I wouldn't know if I was getting good advice and info from a book or web article as I really am completly new at this AR stuff.

    I suppose I will find the answer researching but I was wondering is it just the lower that I'd have to have sent to an FFL to get it or does the upper have to be done as well that way?

    I'm in Texas so I'm don't think I have any concerns about what I buy like someone in NY or Cal would have.

    But ok, you guys do have me convinced to build one. I think it would be fun.
     
  9. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    dallee - You are in the right place. Take a look at the Stickied Threads at the top of this section. You will see that a bunch of other folks came here exactly like you are right now and have asked some of the same questions you have right now.

    Yes. The lower is the only piece of all the components that has to be sent to an FFL and is the only "registered" part.

    Once you have one lower, you can assemble (6) or (26) different uppers for every different configuration and no one will know the difference from the paperwork standpoint.

    JD
     
  10. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    What does this have to do with this thread?

    The guy is asking about getting into the AR field and had some questions, but the only yardage mentioned was 200 yards in relation to having a scope or Aimpoint on top of an A2 carry handle?? :confused:

    Quite frankly I see no help in your post what so ever.

    JD
     
  11. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Do tell? What specialized tools does one need to assemble a lower? Because I only have about 2 dozen students here on FTF that have done it themselves without buying $600 worth of "special tools".

    Headspace? Easily checked by a "master gunsmith" for $20-$35, depending on their arrogance level. The barrel comes pre-set for headspace and it sits on a shoulder in the receiver, which is the exact design that Remington used when they re-did their barrel changeable sniper system in the field.

    The AR platform isn't some grand mystery that is only spoke of by Grand Masters behind secret doors. :rolleyes:
     
  12. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Says the guy who didn't even read the initial post. He asked about using a scope off the carry handle. He was wondering if it was too high for a good cheek weld, but he didn't know the terminology. No harm there.

    What does Camp Perry have to do with anything?

    He is brand new to the platform and had legitimate questions. Legitimate BEGINNER questions, as we all did at one point.

    Well, except for you apparently. :rolleyes:
     
  13. ktmboyz

    ktmboyz New Member

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    First off welcome th the forum Dallee, You will have no regrets building one. As everybody has already stated, you can build a much better gun for the money you are looking to spend.

    First thing to do is figure out what you want for an end product, cruise through the AR picture thread and you will see many builds by people that were once in you shoes. There are soo many variations of the platform and it can get confusing.

    As your first build, assemble your lower and buy a complete upper. The lower reciever is very easy to assemble with a hammer, punch and few other common tools. Like JD said there is a ton of great info in the stickies in the top of this section. Read all of them and fire away with the questions.

    There are some companies that sell a rifle kit like Del-ton, you supply the stripped lower and all you need to build is in the kit. That would be a great entry level carbine and you can have a great rifle for under $600. The upper comes all preassembled and test fired so you dont have to worry about headspace or any other upper assembly hick-ups.

    Don't let people steer you away, its a great way to get to know the platform and you will have huge appreciation for a weapon you assembled yourself. Its a great feeling. I started in you shoes and now have 5 1/2 builds done and love everyone of em :D
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2011
  14. ktmboyz

    ktmboyz New Member

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    Have you even read the OP's post ?? yes to build a rifle form the ground up you might need some very specific tools, or you can do it with some very common basic tools ( yes I have done it )
    You have been here for a few days and had not one worthy post and done nothing buy spew B.S. at a very helpful and skilled regular mod of the forum, who has helped many members from start to finish on their first build.
    You shold back up a little and read the whole thread and see what a DB you really sound like with a whopping 13 posts.
     
  15. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    Wow, just wow!

    I guess all of us [​IMG] members screwed up building our ARs. (Even those of us that bought complete uppers.)

    And here I was so happy with my build including the knowledge of putting the parts together, the sense of accomplishment, and the self confidence I have in my weapon not to mention all the help I received from the more knowledgeable members.

    What a jerk I am! I thought I trusted you guys but again I've been fooled by all you "armchair.....expert"s! (sic)

    signed,

    a fool in search of his money
     
  16. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    Anyone can build an AR-15 with just a few special tools. Heck you can make a block to hold the lower if you want out of some cheap poplar from Home Depot I know I did. Works just fine for lubing the lower and other minor stuff.

    The only two Tools that I can see anyone needing is a vice block for the upper $35 and a Armour wrench $35. Everything else you should have in your tool box if you with on firearms or cars. Shoot I don't work on cars much and I have just about everything I need and then some for building an AR.

    Plus you forget everything the military does is geared towards someone with a 6th grade reading level. Unit Armour's are not always the brightest bulb on the tree. Believe me I went through the US Army Unit Armour course at Fort Hood in 1998. I passed with a 100%. I was beating guys on weapons they used every day and I had never seen like the M240. Up until them I had never seen one I had it apart and back together before any grunts had it apart.

    Like JD said it is not some cult of all knowing AR-15 gods that put these things together.

    I have not built mine I bought mine. For what I wanted it was cheaper to go the purchase route.

    My next one is going to get built by me from the ground up.

    If you want to purchase Give http://www.ar15sales.com/ a call and see what he has.
     
  17. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Excellent information right there. :rolleyes:

    You are everything that is wrong with the internet Mr. Trainer, Sir.

    You think that by hoarding some precious little secret that you will somehow remain relevant in a world that is quickly passing you by thanks to the Internet. Sorry but the days of keeping people in the dark, telling them stories about how attempting to do something so crazy as build your own AR would leave you dead in a ditch the moment you needed it are LONG gone. :rolleyes:

    Building a lower receiver is a piece of cake. Of course you would like everyone to believe you have to be a SeAL/Delta/Spec Ops member grade armorer to pull it off, otherwise there would be no aftermarket parts available. Oh wait..... :rolleyes:

    Hundreds of dollars in specialized tools, hundreds of hours spent being trained by only the best "certified" armorer to even THINK of picking up a stripped receiver and putting in a few springs, a couple of detents and GOD FORBID a trigger assembly.

    Oh, sooooo scary.

    Perhaps you should run back over to your other pretentious forums like AR15-we-are-so-great-dot-com or the-less-than-high-road-dot-com and hang out with the rest of the like minded folks who want to hang on to their precious little titles like “trainer” or “instructor” and believe they are still relevant in this day and age.

    In the meantime, we at FTF will continue to advise new members and help them understand a platform that the Grand Masters like yourself want to have shrouded in mystery.

    The glaring difference between us is that I earned my stripes live and in color, in public on this forum, helping people go from zero to full blown gun while all you can do is talk sh*t and pretend to be important to a world that no longer cares.

    Fact time sport:

    Eugene Stoner was a man who put his pants on one leg at a time like the rest of us mere mortals.

    His design was SUPPOSED to be easy to work on;

    It had to go to the field with common, ground pounding troops.

    The kind of guys who didn't have a ton of specialized tools to pack into the jungle; but still be reliable enough to function when the trigger was pulled. You remember them when you are posting things like “don’t do it yourself” right?

    A “common man’s” weapon if you please.

    Since none of us here had Crowns upon our brow, until June of 2011 when you enlightened us with your presence that is, we had to just get by with our own two hands. SOMETIMES we even built weapons ourselves and field tested them. Amazingly without killing ourselves in the process.

    Simply unbelievable really.

    Bottom line is that you will NEVER be relevant here because you lack the FTF spirit. The willingness to reach out, the willingness to help those who didn’t have the same background as yourself, those who genuinely want to learn, but don’t know where to start. Instead you want to recommend against someone learning a fine platform from the inner workings in some VAIN attempt to bluster your own image.

    Good on you hero. A fine example of higher learning through age and wisdom. :rolleyes:

    But keep up the whole “quoting of other people’s statements” thing. That is really the way to expose people who don’t know you from Adam to the real genius that lies behind your keyboard.
     
  18. ktmboyz

    ktmboyz New Member

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    And to the OP Dallee,, please excuse all the back and forth BS. .This is not what FTF is about. Most of us are here to help in anyway we can, but everyone has opinions and are free to share them.

    You will notice there are quite a few members here with the FTF AR Builder logo on their profile. Are we experts or gunsmiths NO WAY!! That means we have started in your shoes and decided to build a rifle and have posted a thread of the build along the way with a range report. In doing so we have gained experience of the platform along the way and have done lots of research and shopping along the way. That also does not mean that people on here without the logo have no idea what they are saying, you have to sort through the BS on your own and ask Q's as you need.

    Good luck in what ever you decide to do, be it buying a NIB gun and being very happy with it or building a rifle you can call your own and be very proud knowing you gained priceless knowledge of during your quest.

    I am sure you will love your gun no matter what way you go, they are blast to shoot and maintain.

    Welcome to the forum and hope to see you stick around on the best firearm forum and brotherhood on the internet. :cool:
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2011
  19. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Bye. Have fun at the range. :p Sunday afternoon training class with you as the guy in charge sounds like a great way to while away the afternoon taking notes on what it was like back in the day. History has always been a favorite of mine.

    Why do you hate computers so much? I have a pretty good idea. :rolleyes:

    JD
     
  20. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    So anyways..... Back on topic.

    We have a bunch of members here that started the way you did dallee. They liked the idea of an AR and didn't know what to do.

    Buy? What is a good model?

    Build? Can I do that?

    There are 2 dozen forums out there and they ALL have something different to say. How can any one person I have never met possibly know me, my situation and what's best for me?!?!

    You're right. We don't know your specific situation. We don't know if you can change your own oil or install your own software on your computer.

    Point taken.

    But if you read through a ton of threads in this very section, you will see HUNDREDS of posts from years of experience from members that have been there and done that.

    People just like you, started right where you are now, and they made it work.

    Now, if you want a real world experience rush, I am going to PM a friend of mine and have him stop by with a little bit of info from the "real world".

    JD