Featured New to AR Platforms

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by Eli99, May 14, 2018.

  1. Eli99

    Eli99 New Member

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    Hello, I'm very interested in building an AR. I have limited experience with these guns but every time I have shot one i have had an absolute blast. I have a few questions regarding the AR:

    Some of the rifles i have shot felt rather cheap as I could hear the spring after every shot and it gave off a very cheap impression. Are there ways to work around this?

    What brands should I stay away from?

    What brands would you reccomend looking into?



    Any helpful tips or information are greatly appreciated.
     
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  2. SanchoPanza

    SanchoPanza Active Member

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    Buy 1st one:

    Colt LE6920,

    Colt AR6720,

    &/or

    Colt AR15A4

    Colt. Everything else is just a copy.
     
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  3. Greg_r

    Greg_r Well-Known Member

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    When I was on Parris Island I was excited. I was going to finally shoot the big, bad, USMC battle rifle. BOING! What a let down!

    Get yourself a JP Enterprises captured buffer and the boing will go away.

    My 6.5 Grendel
    20180512_165147.jpg
     
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  4. MistWolf

    MistWolf New Member

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    Certain AR stocks amplify the sproing.

    Magpul stocks do a good job of damping the sproing.

    Make your life easy and get either a Colt 6920 or 6720. Or spend a bit more and the get the Colt CCU.
     
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  5. Shopfox

    Shopfox Well-Known Member

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    If building, take a look at the Palmetto State Armory kits. They have upper assemblies, lower kits, and rifle kits. They are a good value and are a good way to get introduced to building.

    FWIW, I've put together numerous rifles and lowers from PSA kits using both PSA and Anderson stripped lowers. I have not had any problems (about 8 builds).

    Many of the kits have the Magpul MOE furniture. The Enhanced Polished Trigger is worth the $29 upgrade with the kits.

    Look also for a mid-length gas system if going with a 16" barrel. 18" barrels are generally used more for precision shooting builds (they generate a few more fps). A 16" barrel is fine for 90% of typical shooting.
     
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  6. Shopfox

    Shopfox Well-Known Member

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    Form follows function.

    It really needs to be asked: how will you be using your rifle? Possible answers might be: Home defense, range plinking, precision target shooting, 3gun competitions, hunting (which game and which environments), SHTF, etc.

    Will you be using optics or irons?
    What is most important to you (weight, accuracy, durability, budget)?
    Are you of average strength/stature?
     
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  7. dwmiller

    dwmiller Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Shopfox has some really good points, what do you want the rifle to do? That determines the design and style. We can all go on about XYZ brand rifle and our personal preferences, but yours are what matter. Define what kind of shooting you want to do, then the rest of us can help you fill in the blanks.

    Oh and don't get too hung up on the spring sound, it's the nature of the design. All AR's have it to one extent or another. I can tell you how to get rid of it, JT Silent Buffer, but it will cost more than a 1000rds of ammo and doesn't make the gun any better...

    Any milspec AR is as good as any other milspec AR. That said most of us surpass the milspec when we build. Some of us bend it so far it's hard to recognize the rifle as an AR. Don't get hung up on brand names, they really don't mean much in the AR world. They are just a history of build quality, and every one of them makes an occasional lemon. Who makes each part, and in what way is that part superior DO matter. Do some reading, the stickies above are great info, and look at other people's build threads. Best advice I can give you.

    Look at Deals,Deals,deals thread. I post a lot of stuff in there about AR kits...
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018 at 5:19 PM
  8. SanchoPanza

    SanchoPanza Active Member

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    Only Colt may legally use the Technical Data Package (TDP).
     
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  9. dwmiller

    dwmiller Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That's true, but they are not the current government contractor. Defense department decides who has access to the TDP. Its pretty widely dispersed information at this time. The original TDP was bought from Armalight back in the early 60's and assigned to Colt as the military's chosen producer of the first run M16 rifles. They did most of the redesign work and corrected the early teething problems of the platform.

    I've sat on too many of these small as arms design committee's, during my Pentagon tours, over the years to hold the TDP in much awe. Frankly most of the aftermarket manufacturers make a better AR than those first run rifles. Some of them make a better product than anything in service, including my $10k bolt action I was issued. I wouldn't shoot F1 benchrest with an issue sniper rifle, I'd get spanked...


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite
     
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  10. bfoosh006

    bfoosh006 Member

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    BTW... putting some grease on the recoil spring will help quiet it down... I've been doing it for decades.
     
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  11. Greg_r

    Greg_r Well-Known Member

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    I will respectfully disagree that the JP Enterprises captured buffer dosen't make the gun any better. Granted, it dosen't fix anything. The AR runs just fine with the standard spring and buffer. But aside from getting rid of that "boing" the JP captured buffer will reduce recoil, will make the rifle run smoother, will reduce weight. Shoot one with and without and the difference is obvious. It will reduce your time if you shoot competition.

    I have 1 rifle built with the lightweight JP Enterprises lightweight bolt and captured buffer. It also has a lightweight BCM rail. It's the lightest rifle I own. Again, it doseint fix anything, but it is definitely an upgrade.

    At $130 plus a pop, my other rifles will not be getting one.
     
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  12. dwmiller

    dwmiller Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I agree 100%. Yup put one in a 9mm build I did to help with the recoil problems of the open bolt system. (Increased cyclic mass with no lockup delay) I was trying to spread out the recoil impulse a few more hundredths of a second. Iagree it's an improvement, but in a regular AR? Not enough that I would use one on a DI system or even one of the pistons I've built. With the title of "new to the AR platform" it's a bit outside the box for a first build option...
     
  13. MistWolf

    MistWolf New Member

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    The JP buffer might soften recoil, but it does not reduce recoil. The only way to reduce free recoil is to decrease payload mass, decrease velocity or increase weapon mass.

    Colt is the only company that may offer an M4 based on the TDP to the civilian market. FN also has the M4 TDP (and I believe the M16A4 TDP) but they are not allowed to offer a civilian M4 using the TDP.

    PSA kits can be a good choice if the customer knows what to look for. But PSA spring quality is hit or miss, particularly their extractor springs when used in a carbine. The downside for a new AR owner is when they get a kit that needs tweaking and have no experience or knowledge troubleshooting ARs. A new owner can get help on the internet, but sorting the advice of inexperienced but well meaning helpers from knowledgeable troubleshooters is confusing.

    This is where buying certain brands pays for itself. Good brands, such as Colt, BCM and Sionics, pay attention to details and use the right springs. Chances of the AR needing tweaking is greatly reduced.

    The good news is, getting an AR to run reliably is simply a matter of using in spec parts. Then it will give good service with minimal maintenance
     
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  14. dwmiller

    dwmiller Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You are 100% correct, total recoil is NOT reduced. But, you CAN reduce felt recoil by lengthening the impulse out over a longer period of time.

    Decreasing cartridge impulse(power) and reducing the cycling mass are the only way to actually reduce the recoil. In practice this means shooting smaller, weaker cartridge's. Not something that's attractive in a weapon system. Spreading out the LENGTH of time of the impulse, while the total power stays the same, results in lower felt recoil. That's how these systems work...
     
  15. MistWolf

    MistWolf New Member

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    It does not reduce felt recoil, it softens felt recoil. It changes the attack, sustain and fade of recoil transfer from the reciprocating mass, but it does not reduce recoil.

    Reducing the reciprocating mass actually increases free recoil because it reduces the mass of the firearm. Decreasing the reciprocating mass affects how recoil energy is transferred to the reciprocating mass and back, but so does spring rate, speed of the reciprocating mass, acceleration of the mass and so on.

    There are basically three types of recoil.
    -Felt recoil, which is how the recoil feels to the shooter. Does it feel sharp, soft, quick, long, etc. Felt recoil is often subjective.
    -There is free recoil which is measured in ft/lbs after taking into account the amount or recoil energy absorbed by the mass of the firearm.
    -There is a third type, which what it is called escapes me at the moment. It's the quantifiable recoil energy generated by accelerating the payload down the bore and is measured before recoil is absorbed by the mass of the firearm.
     
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  16. dwmiller

    dwmiller Well-Known Member Supporter

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    1)First statement: You just reworded what my original statement was and redifined "felt recoil" to try and make your point.

    Felt recoil, is peak energy of the power curve.
    Total recoil energy, is defined as the area under a curve.

    Total recoil is measured (Newton's x Seconds), if the area stays constant increasing the length of time decreases the peak energy. Total energy in the system stays the same. Engineering 101. That's what the JP buffer system does.

    2) Second statement: You completely ingnored the first half of my statement about "reducing cartridge power AND reducing recoil mass". All you were looking at was the reduce recoil mass part. That's the only way to reduce total system energy. Try rereading what I actually said.

    The third type of recoil is total impulse. All the energy generated by the bullets acceleration from ignition to barrel exit. The rest of what you said I agree with...
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2018 at 2:19 PM
  17. MistWolf

    MistWolf New Member

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    I did read what you said. I also explained the difference between felt recoil and free recoil. I will try in another way.

    Felt recoil is how the shooter perceives the recoil, soft, sharp, comfortable, painful etc., regardless of recoil energy. It is generally subjective.

    Free recoil is how much recoil energy the firearm transfers to the shooter, regardless of how the recoil is felt.

    You are correct that reducing cartridge power reduces recoil. I did not ignore that.

    If you mean recoiling mass to be the mass of the reciprocating mass (in the case of the AR that would be the BCG and buffer), reducing that mass does not reduce recoil. It simply changes how much recoil it stores during recoil.

    If you mean recoiling mass to be the mass of the firearm, that also does not reduce recoil.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2018 at 2:26 PM
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  18. MistWolf

    MistWolf New Member

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    To clarify, the JP buffer does not directly affect recoil. It softens the impact of the reciprocating mass as the reciprocating mass reaches the end of its travel by lengthening the time it takes to bring it to a stop.

    A good example would be like driving a car at 40 mph, then slamming on the brakes to stop the car within ten feet compared to beginning the braking sooner to stop the car within 60 feet.
     
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