new springfield 1911 loaded, 100 rounds to FTF, why? (and more)

Discussion in '1911 Forum' started by marshall, Feb 26, 2011.

  1. marshall

    marshall New Member

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    Hey Folks,

    back again. after over a week of waiting i got my gun yesterday. had the girl over so i couldn't 'play' with it. after she left, about 130am i inspected it and said, screw it, i'm off saturday i'll start the process of field stripping it and cleaning, oiling, lubing and reassemble for the range saturday.

    well at 530 am i finally finished. i'm no mechanic, i do IT work and the only maintenance i'd do is on PC's at work or for me. so taking this gun a part was something REALLY new to me. 4 hours on a 30 minute youtube video. i know i know, rookie.

    btw, i was super careful, really! i got a slight 'idiot mark'/'stop slide mark' etc. at the right angle with light you can see it. but it's not too obvious. it's about half the size of a typical mark it was really difficult for me to put it in there. i dont know if it's because it's new but the plunger was difficult to push in until i finally did.

    So range report and back to the thread topic. on top of the 10 ftf's i had about 5 FTL(?) Fail to load in chamber.

    i shot 100 rounds of Sellier and Bellot 9mm. ( i know i know this gun is built for the .45acp, but high end makers still make this pistol in this format and they work, but that's a WHOLE other story).

    i have my stock springfield loaded mags (i ordered my tripp's last week saturday and got mail on monday that they shipped? nothing yet) so i have a feeling my failed load to chambers were due to the mags.

    In one instance, after a fail to load, i couldn't slide the slide to check the chamber. it was extremely difficult. i tried a few dry fires to 'trick' the mechanics. the slide stop or safety wasn't in the way. do you think this is due to bad lubing? it was so difficult to try and slide, i almost quit the range and went home to inspect it even further. then afterwards it was back to working.

    In another instance, after a fail to load and the slide was all the way back, the slide stop wasn't in it's proper slide stop groove. bad lubing? this only happened once.

    so i hear about wrist limping on newer shooters, could it be that? bad lubing? is too much lubing bad?

    also, watching the videos from the armory channel that someone was kind to recommend, it was hard to see where the lube goes. can anyone use pics to point specifics, or point for a tutorial on proper lubing?


    your information is much appreciated friends.
     
  2. jca1

    jca1 New Member

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    OK, there are FTF's (fail to feed) and FTE's (fail to eject) I'm not sure what you mean by fail to load. Are you saying the spent case from the previous shot was ejected but another round was not chambered?

    Limp wristing usually causes FTF's with a round wedged against the feed ramp
     

  3. FCross7

    FCross7 New Member

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    As far as cleaning and lubing, here is another video from the armory channel that goes into a lot more detail, and you're able to see where he's putting grease and oil a little bit. It's kind of long, but pretty good. If you want, you can skip about the first 3-4 minutes, then skip ahead as you see necessary.

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMj7jYCud_0&feature=relmfu]YouTube - HOW TO CLEAN A 1911[/ame]

    As for the malfunctions, as jca1 said, it's hard to recommend something without being totally sure what type of malfunction it is. If the weapon is ejecting fine, but just not feeding, my guess would be either limp wristing, or those terrible mags that Springfield sends out with their 1911s. Probably the latter.

    If I were you, I'd watch that video, give it a good cleaning/lubing, wait for those Tripp mags to come in, then head back to the range and shoot it. If that fixed your problem, great. If not, get one of the guys working at the range to shoot the pistol, if it doesn't malfunction, then it's something you're doing, most likely limp wristing.

    The only thing I'm not sure on it the slide sticking. I really have no idea what could cause that, I don't even think under lubricating the pistol would do that. Maybe rounds getting stuck in the chamber for some reason? Hopefully someone who knows more than me(pretty much most of the guys here) can answer that question for you. Same with the slide stop not being in the right groove.

    -Fred
     
  4. marshall

    marshall New Member

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    sorry, i confused the terminology. the 10 instances, the bullet looked like it fed into the chamber (barrel showed in the ejector slot so i couldn't really see) and when i squeezed the trigger, it clicked but no bang. i had to release the mag and then slide to pop the bullet from the chamber.

    the other 5 instances were failed to feed. i can see the bullet not all the way chambered since the barrel wasn't covering the ejector port.

    FCross, once again THANK YOU for the video. i'll definitely check it out.

    I need to email Tripp or call them and see if there is some sort of tracking or confirmation number. Once i get those mags, i'll do another range report.
    second time cleaning, assembly reassembly took about an hour and a half. just me taking my time. popping the slide stop was WAY easier but trickier. i think i can definitely get the hang of it now though.

    funny cuz i don't have much experience with other mags but these springfields felt a little cheapy....

    again thanks all for the info. my bad on the terminology.
     
  5. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    What I suggest is you find someone that is experienced to join you while you're getting familiar with this gun (and handguns in general). Most ranges have some "expertise" available as well as offering some individual instruction. Is the gun having problems or is it your "methods" - that's the question that must be answered. Also, I suggest using something besides S&B ammo, like Federal, Winchester, Blazer, or even Remington.

    I knew a fella that bought a new 1911 and cussed it from day one for being unreliable. Turns out he did not clean or lube it properly and installed the recoil spring backwards when he put it together the first time. This is a common mistake - the tightly coiled end goes on the guide rod and the open end towards the muzzle. New 1911s generally like to be run a bit "wet" until they get broken in - running it dry will almost always cause problems.

    Hopefully, you can find some local expertise to assist you in getting to know this gun...
     
  6. jca1

    jca1 New Member

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    The rounds that chambered but did not fire; did they show a firing pin strike on the primer?

    Also, how far did you strip the pistol for the first time? Did you just remove the slide and barrel or did you detail strip the slide and frame.
     
  7. thundrr1

    thundrr1 New Member

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    Which SA 1911 are we talking about? Two words,,,,, lube,,, lube. Run 3 or 4 hundred WWB FMJ's through it and see how it smooths out. Returning to battery is not uncommon on a new pistol, especially one with a new to 1911 operator.

    As mentioned earlier, double check the spring and make sure it's in the right way. If your shooting it in the cold, avoid grease on the slide. Use gun oil. Good luck.
     
  8. marshall

    marshall New Member

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    Being in Chicago, it's against the law to ship ammo to you. need a FFL. i'll be doing some ordering online for ammo and other brands. my LGS only had that type in 9mm. Being one of the biggest LGS in the chicagoland (law says no selling, ranges in chicago) area they kind of monopolize on that. 17 bucks for a box of 9mm. 12 bucks for unlimited range (fair price) and 100 for transfers. it's nuts. i'm working on getting a friend with a foid and purchasing bulk ammo for me who lives just outside chicago and really close.

    i'll also look into expert for some info. they offer multiple classes.

    as far as the recoil spring, it's definitely not backwards yet. the guide rod is still stuck to the spring. but i just made a mental note once that guide rode comes off that spring. thanks.

    the first time i lubed the gun i used weapon shield grease. to clean it up i used KG1 and KG3.

    this second time, after the range, i used the same to clean it, but used Militec to oil/lub the gun and added some of that weapon shield grease as well. i'm just going to wait on the Tripp mags.


    Honestly, i don't remember, and didn't bother to look. :/
    and even more honestly, how can i tell?....i know i know....

    I have the springer loaded. i'll definitely use different ammo, hopefully these tripp mags come in monday.
     
  9. General_lee

    General_lee New Member

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    If you look at the back (primer end) of the casing, you should see a small round dent in the primer where the firing pin hit.
     
  10. marshall

    marshall New Member

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    OH! Okay, that makes sense. i was thinking telling from the gun. but i see, you mean the casing. i didn't check but next time it happens, if it does. i'll make a note of it as well.


    if it looks like it did hit it, what would it mean? if it doesn't hit the primer, does that mean it's a bad firing pin?
     
  11. Jesse17

    Jesse17 New Member

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    Never touched a 1911 myself, but I know my Ruger MK II took 500-1000 rds to "wear it in". Had lots of problems until then with it catching the spent casing in between the action and the barrel, or only denting the unfired cartrage but not firing it.

    After breaking the gun in, it's reliable as all get out.

    Just my $0.02 worth.
     
  12. General_lee

    General_lee New Member

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    If it looks like it hit the primer, but didn't fire the round, it could be bad ammo. If it's a very faint and shallow dent, or no dent at all the problem is probably the firing pin.
     
  13. marshall

    marshall New Member

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    great information everyone. MUCH appreciated.


    i'm hoping bad mag (stock) and ammo.
     
  14. CHLChris

    CHLChris New Member

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    The problem with this ONLY being about ammo is the fact that the slide did not open easily after these firing problems, right? If this was just an ammo problem, then the slide would have been able to function more normally throughout the session.

    You still haven't answered the BIG QUESTION. Did you take apart the gun, or just field strip it? Did you have just a few parts or did you have 30 parts on the table? Did you mess around with the slide at all? Did you mess with the firing pin/spring assembly? Did you mess with the extractor? A field strip only has these parts on the table:

    -slide
    -frame (maybe 2 grips removed with 4 screws)
    -guide rod (2 parts on your 9mm model?)
    -barrel bushing
    -barrel
    -recoil spring
    -slide stop

    Tripp mags are great! But this does NOT sound like a mag issue.
     
  15. rjd3282

    rjd3282 New Member

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    If I bought a brand new gun and it didn't work right out of the box with nothing more than a clean and lube it would go back to the manufacturer. That's not acceptable. Can you imagine buying a new TV and having to turn it on and off 500 times before it works properly. Or buying a new car that only runs for 10 miles and quits for 3 hours. If you took that car to the dealer and they told you that you have to do that for the first 500 miles, you wouldn't put up with that. If it's the mags fault WTF? You mean springfield can't even ship two good mags with one of their guns? I'll bet if this guy's gun was a taurus you guy's wouldn't be making excuses for it. You'd be telling him he bought a POS. What's the difference taurus, springfield, kimber or colt it ought to work right from the start.
     
  16. CHLChris

    CHLChris New Member

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    rjd:

    I bet that many of us have a feeling that this is user error that started at the same time he spent 4 HOURS cleaning it. We're just asking questions to troubleshoot this, not blame the gun.
     
  17. rjd3282

    rjd3282 New Member

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    I'm sure that has more to do with than anything chris. I can't imagine a half days work disassembling a 1911 and putting it back together. I just think it's funny when it's one of the "loved brands" everybody wants to blame everything but the gun. But if it's a brand that isn't quite so popular it has to be the gun.
     
  18. Jesse17

    Jesse17 New Member

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    I have no loyalty what so ever to Springfield...but it's been said time and time again on here (and I found out with my Ruger) that some handguns need to be broke in.
     
  19. Benning Boy

    Benning Boy New Member

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    I've purchased more than one new car where the dealer advised getting it out on a toll road and putting it through some paces to break it in.

    Many new guns will require you to run some ammo through to move some springs and loosen them up.

    When I got my XD, the magazines were beasts to load, but after the third or fourth cycle, butter smooth.
     
  20. marshall

    marshall New Member

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    i completely forgot to answer that, i'll answer it below.

    i didn't check the strike on the primer. i didn't think of it then and probably wouldn't have thought to check if it wasn't for these forums. which is why im here to learn. totally making mental notes on all of this.

    Chris,

    Yeah, the parts you described is exactly what i did. (removing the grips a good idea, yikes didn't think of that one. i'll do that next time) guide rod was just one part. the recoil spring was 2 parts per se, the spring was attached to the spring guide. the only other confusing part for me was the barrel link forward. but then i saw the manual a second time.


    the slide didn't want to open on one occasion. but yeah it was about 3 or 4 times after the failure to fires.

    i didn't mess with the firing pin


    right, even with the best of brands, there's bound to be a bad one of the tens of thousands made.


    i totally understand what you mean.

    i hope this is the case. needs to be broken in.

    the mags were DEFINITELY a beast to load.