New Guy with a Question

Discussion in 'Survival & Sustenance Living Forum' started by Ghost Rider, Jul 6, 2008.

  1. Ghost Rider

    Ghost Rider New Member

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    Hey Fellas, hope this hasn't been asked before: I am considering getting a pellet rifle like the ones here to add to my regular arsenal:
    http://www.airgundepot.com/tech-force-pellet-rifles-177-cal.html

    I am thoroughly convinced that we will expereince large scale civil disturbances in the future, mixed in with occassional periods of stability in which the government will go after the good people that protected themselves from the armed looters/rioters under pressure from protesters who encourage unrest.

    Although I have an AR-15, Combat shotgun and several handguns, I have a Ruger 10/22 that I think is a cheap way to send warning shots to mutants who start scanning your property, or as a last ditch defense in such a scenario. I wondered what y'all thought about deploying a powerful pellet rifle during civil unrest where you are not facing a lethal encounter at the moment, but would like a non-lethal way to let a looter know he was venturing too close to your home/area or if he was starting to break into a neighbors house. You could sting someone at a relative distance and not have someone trying to prosecute you for murder when things get back under control...

    all thoughts either way appreciated
     
  2. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    Owning a decent air rifle has its advantages. The best I can think of is that it's quiet and still suitable for hunting small game at close range. You may be able to get dinner without attracting unwanted attention.

    As for fending off the hordes or dissuading an enterprising thug from cleaning out your neighbor's house, I'd be more inclined to reach for something with a little more power. You might be right about it being a means to drive off someone. (Then again, they might interpret that as being the most potent weapon you have, and be back again another time with friends.)
     

  3. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    I have to say, personally, I would discourage using such a small weapon as a "warning". You are tipping your hand, basically telling the other side that you are marginally armed. While you may have (6) Big Thunder Handguns and a dozen Hammers of Thor lying about within arms reach, enticing someone that you are an "easy mark" is not the best battle plan in a SHTF scenario.

    While I would agree there is no reason to go all Rambo on the first person knocking on your door to get some extra food or water, sending the wrong message could invite more problems.

    I believe you are a former LEO, so you know how good a deterent "that special sound" of a shotgun racking or a round being chambered can punch through the BS and get right to the point.

    As a training piece, something to teach the kids or the wife to start shooting accurately I believe a quality pellet gun, or something like a bolt action .22, is invaluable....

    JD
     
  4. G21.45

    G21.45 New Member

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    :) First, you're not the, 'Caped Crusader'; so it ain't your job to, 'get there first with the most'. Second, unless you're part of a mutually cooperative neighborhood watch program, let the neighbors take care of themselves.

    (Remember, you might need them for food.) :p

    Third, I absolutely guarantee your local predators will know who's a, 'hard' or a, 'soft' target without any additional posturing or threat displays from you. Stay close to home; hunt and forage at night if you must; and, do everything you possibly can in order to guard both your privacy and hide your personal capabilities well.

    Don't make the mistake of pissing people off with either small caliber munitions or a pellet rifle. That's just plain stupid. If you're hungry: traps, deadfalls, tanglefoots, and drags are very useful things to know about; and, at backyard distances, 22 caliber CB caps work very well on varmint size game. CB's make about the same amount of noise as a pellet rifle; and often hit a lot harder than all, but the most expensive, commercial pellet rifles.

    During periods of high civil unrest - Which, indeed, might be coming. - you will need to do as much as possible in order to keep and maintain a very low personal profile. I'm puzzled: Hasn't anyone told you it's always the guy with the gun who gets shot first!

    You, most assuredly, should not let others know you are either armed or proficient with weapons until AFTER you're forced to engage. If you enjoy this sort of study, I'd suggest you Google both, 'Ragnar Benson' and, 'FerFAL' on the internet and start reading away.

    (It ain't gonna be purty!) ;)





    By the way, while we're on the subject, have you given any thought to where you're going to be hiding all those bodies? :D
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2008
  5. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    If someone shot me in the ass with a pellet gun, I would have to "up the ante"...and come back with a howitzer. I agree with G21.45 about CB caps. They are great for silent kills on small game - if the slobs in my neighborhood don't start having their cats "fixed" I may well have to "fix" them with some well placed CB caps...
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2008
  6. dragunovsks

    dragunovsks New Member

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    It has it's advantages like using it to hunt without attracting attention but like Dellinger said, I would use it for firing warning shots. You could always fire at thier feet with a rifle (an SKS in my case). They make a lot of noise and make a good, grapefruit sized piece of ground disappear at someones feet. I've used mine to fire "get-on-outta-here" shots at the neighbors mean dog. That will teach him to groul at me in my own yard, he didn't come back for months.
     
  7. dragunovsks

    dragunovsks New Member

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    Sorry, I meant to say I wouldn't use it to fire warning shots. I missed a couple letters, tried to type to fast.
     
  8. Righteous

    Righteous New Member

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    get you a paintball gun and freeze the paintballs or shoot jaw brakers
     
  9. next633

    next633 New Member

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    If you are worried about being prosecuted. The first thing I would do is get familiar with your state and local self defense laws. That way should you need to defend your self or property know exactly what you can and can't do. You can only be prosecuted with the laws that are in place at the time of the incident.
    If feasible put up wooden or metal shutters on your windows lock them and the house and wait it out. Civil unrest usually only lasts a few days to a few weeks. Have enough supplies on hand to get you through a while.

    G21.45 said it well: "I absolutely guarantee your local predators will know who's a, 'hard' or a, 'soft' target without any additional posturing or threat displays from you. Stay close to home; hunt and forage at night if you must; and, do everything you possibly can in order to guard both your privacy and hide your personal capabilities well."

    Now my personal opinion on warning shots or racking shotgun as a deterrent:
    If a looter makes it through a locked shutered window or a locked door. Why would you want to give up your best advantage the element of suprise?
    Keep the things you can't live without in the house. and do your best to keep the rest locked in a garage or out building. Looters usually look for easy targets.
    If a looter steals my car or lawn mower I can live without that and I have insurance for those things. Are they really worth risking your life or the lives of your loved ones over?
    But if he breaks into my house the only thing I want him to hear is bang.
     
  10. mike4jade

    mike4jade New Member

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    One should always have a good pellet rifle, battery powered radio, food, duct tape, etc. I agree with most folks here though that a 22 CB whether long or short will be more useful. Really there is no big difference in a 22 cb in a long rifle compared to a good 22 or 5mm pump-up pellet rifle, except the 22 rifle can fire better ammo if needed. To the main point: If I'm going to shoot someone, I don't want to piss them off so they come back to get me. Have a good reason for shooting and shoot to kill. Or don't shoot.
     
  11. BigO01

    BigO01 New Member

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    While I agree with this in spirit my personal philosophy is if all hell breaks loose and my worst fears come true .

    Should I survive an attack and the enemy retreats , unless occupied with wounded I fully intend to pursue them back to their holes and as they say "Bring down the thunder and lightening on them with the wrath of hell itself" I don't kid myself into thinking one would last long in purely defensive mode under such circumstances .

    The animals that will arise out of a total collapse of society in todays world is far beyond the imagination and the reality of the past .

    You had better wrap your mind around killing as easily as you breath without hesitation even if it is a 12 YO kid with a 22 . He would kill you your children your wife and rape and torture as a matter of second nature to him .

    When/if it happens in your lifetime you will quickly learn the differences in races and cultures that the bleeding hearts have been denying for decades or you'll be dead .
     
  12. Ghost Rider

    Ghost Rider New Member

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    Thanks for the replies so far everyone. Let me expand a little on what I was thinking and what has come up in some of the replies:

    Do any of you remember the 1992 Rodney King riots in CA where several Korean business owners were exchanging shots with armed looters because the police were nowhere to be found? After everything had settled down, many of the rioters and their sympathizers were demanding criminal charges be brought against the store owners...it didn't really go anywhere, but you see the mentality of some people...and some of them are either elected or become judges.

    Also, some of you mentioned that a looter would remember you for popping their ass with a pellet rifle and come back later. In looking at footage from Katrina and L.A., it always seemed to me that most of those dopes were opportunists that wouldn't remember where they stole anything, let alone who chased them off...it would be different than popping the neighbor kid that sees you everyday...am I right?

    I thought it also might be good for aggressive dogs that may get loose.
    Again, all ideas appreciated.
     
  13. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    If the SHTF I want a weapon capable of putting a confrontation to an end - hopefully in my favor. Pellet guns are fun for backyard plinking, but they have absolutely no tactical purpose for me. A .22 is a much better weapon if you want to limit your killing power for small game. SHooting at someone is nothing to take lightly, and God forbid if it comes to that I will be shooting to kill, not to mame, wound, or warn.
     
  14. ScottG

    ScottG New Member

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    I don't think I'd use a pellet rifle for anything other than varmint control or small food acquisition.

    If any unrest happens in November say, or after that, it seems you'll need more than a bb gun. Anyway, I think if there is any acting up if something happens on election day, most likely it would happen in the areas that democrats outnumber republicans and in areas that a natural constituency has the majority. Most of us would probably be ready if we lived in such an area or gone. But when MLK was killed LA did not burn like other places, so I don't know how realistic fears of rioting would be if the false messiah doesn't win. Not everyone thinks the same about him.
     
  15. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Just my thoughts on this- do any of you know the only defense against the detonation of a nuclear weapon? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

    The answer is- when that event takes place, you must be somewhere that you can say "What was that?" And while I am being a little tongue in cheek here, the same principle attains- to be on favorable terrain. That is, are you somewhere that is capable of being defended? If not, would suggest that you (a) move, or (b) look at how you are gonna get the heck out of Dodge to a more favorable bit of terrain. There are very few bunkers in urban areas that are capable of being defended against a determined foe. Just ask any member of the German Army.

    Yep, keep a pellet rifle around. 5mm Sheridan Blue Streak. Handy for popping a bunny or squirrel, deadly at 40-45 yds. But I don't fire warning shots with ANYTHING. And if I have let bad guys get with 40 yards, I will have made several grievous errors in judgement.
     
  16. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    Erm...actually, it's possible to notice the detonation of a nuke from a couple miles away and be a minute or so away from being incinerated. That's plenty of time to ask "What was that?" "I dunno. Wanna go to Starbucks for a vente half-caff-non-fat-latte-supreme-double-caramel-macchioto?" "No, I only have $15 on me." *fry*

    Personally, I was more concerned with roving hordes of hungry/opportunistic civilians than I was with the Marines. Any terrain can be defended to one degree or another, given sufficient people, supplies and training. And the most easily-defended terrain can be overrun by a couple guys if it is not defended properly or at all.

    Amen to that.
     
  17. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    BKT- Actually, radiant heat, being IR Light, travels at speed of light. The shock wave (overpressure & blast effect) comes along considerably slower (speed of sound).

    However, my point was that one should pick WHERE they want to defend. Can any terrain be defended? Yep- with enough prep. However, if your perimeter is at your property line, and that is 15 ft from your front door- that is gonna take a LOT of prep to defend against an all out assualt of lawless persons. An old military definition of "delaying action" is trading space for time. If you HAVE no space, that does not give you much time to react. I do feel it is important for some of our friends to realize that if you suddenly find that civilian law enforcement has decided "Yer own yer own, folks" that where you are sitting may not be the most advantageous spot to defend in place. In which case, safely getting you and yours TO such a place should be high on their SHTF planning.
     
  18. rickrem700

    rickrem700 New Member

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    Non leathal

    If you want something to get there attention find somebody to load you some 23/4 shot gun shell with half the powder and some #9 shot that comes out to 958 pellets at about 650 feet per second or so. it won't kill them but there going to know they got hit!!!
     
  19. mpoirier22114

    mpoirier22114 New Member

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    rocksalt slugs work just as well too:eek:
     
  20. fin24000

    fin24000 New Member

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    Yeah rock salt is about the only warning I would fire. Other then that I would say go buy some Reminton sub-sonic 22lr's ($6 for a 50 round box), they are about the same sound as a powerful pellet gun and the are more then able to turn a brain to jello if you need too....