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Oh, if you shoot it, and like it, BE a copycat. Nobody will fault you for it.
Not only is imitation the sincerest form of flattery, life is to short to
let politics or appearances get in the way of getting a decent gun you like.
Hold on, let me get this right...You want a bolt action rifle that is not a copycat?

Mr. Von Dreyse is a rolling over in his grave...
 
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I am thinking about a new concept in stocks. Something natural, light-weight, recyclable, holds up to all weather and looks good.....Wood! What if we made rifle stocks outta wood? Naw, it will never catch on....
What if we made them out of carbon fi-bre and kevlar???:D
 
I am thinking about a new concept in stocks. Something natural, light-weight, recyclable, holds up to all weather and looks good.....Wood! What if we made rifle stocks outta wood? Oak, pine maybe....No I got it...Walnut! Naw, it will never catch on....

Evan maybe a laminate?

I wasn't trying to bust your chops, but Wal-mart is the last place I'd look for ammo. They are very limited as to what you can buy.
A bunch of my stuff is handload only so I can't run down to a store for ammo.

If you ever start reloading, you will never buy factory ammo again unless it's a great deal. Rimfire ammo is all that I buy.
^^^^^^ What he said. I do buy an occasional box, but never at Wally World. U.S Commercial cheap ammo is really hit or miss and rarely has the same point of impact from lot to lot. Unless you are buying large quantities/ same lot, you never know where the 1st round of a new box will hit. I have not seen a box of Rifle ammo for $20.00 in quite a few years, even cheap stuff is $27-28.00. I am moving my reloading bench, but really glad I started buying lots of 500 bullets years ago, same with 4 or 8lb kegs of powder. I can load a decent 55gr .223 for about .19, 7mm Rem Mag with Barnes copper for .35. When you hit more then 15-20 different calibers it only makes sense to hand load. As far as kids and tight spaces, Many people I know started with a B&D workmate folding bench and a single stage press in an apartment. Anything can be done with a little thought and planning.
 
Hold on, let me get this right...You want a bolt action rifle that is not a copycat?

Mr. Von Dreyse is a rolling over in his grave...
You're making my eyes hurt. Read all the posts. Nowhere did I state
that I wanted an original design bolt action. I was saying that the OP
should worry more about what is good for him to shoot, rather than what
other people might think of what he got.
 
Evan maybe a laminate?



^^^^^^ What he said. I do buy an occasional box, but never at Wally World. U.S Commercial cheap ammo is really hit or miss and rarely has the same point of impact from lot to lot. Unless you are buying large quantities/ same lot, you never know where the 1st round of a new box will hit. I have not seen a box of Rifle ammo for $20.00 in quite a few years, even cheap stuff is $27-28.00. I am moving my reloading bench, but really glad I started buying lots of 500 bullets years ago, same with 4 or 8lb kegs of powder. I can load a decent 55gr .223 for about .19, 7mm Rem Mag with Barnes copper for .35. When you hit more then 15-20 different calibers it only makes sense to hand load. As far as kids and tight spaces, Many people I know started with a B&D workmate folding bench and a single stage press in an apartment. Anything can be done with a little thought and planning.
you can reload just about anywhere. i can remember my father reloading when we were youngsters on platform he made to hold the press on the coffee table in our small two bedroom apartment. he stored all the reloading equipment and supplies in the hall closet when he was done.

i had an uncle, who reloaded pistol ammo at his kitchen table with one of those old LEE hand press reloaders. kept everything in couple of large wooden crates in his garage when he was done reloading.

but you hear all the excuses on why people don't reload, and just buy ammo. but that's exactly what they are, excuses. "I don't have time to reload." "I don't have the room to dedicate to reloading." "It's too expensive to get into reloading."

none of those are true. i have worked jobs where i barely had time to eat and catch a few hours sleep, and i still found a few moments here and there to do some reloading. i have used a small space and small desk in the corner of my home office, or the spare bedroom, when i first started reloading years ago. LEE makes some really good basic reloading equipment, that is reasonably prices and can be bought as a kit. you can add more, or better equipment as time and finances allow.

reloading offers you more control over your ammo and ammo costs. it allows you to fine tune ammo to your specific guns. it's much cheaper to make premium ammo, than you can buy as factory ammo at the store.you can make ammo that isn't available commercially as factory ammo. it allows you to shoot more. it allows you to shoot more expensive calibers more reasonably. it allow your more options over the firearms you might otherwise pass on because of the expense of the ammo they use. it allows you to shoot older and more obsolete calibers, and expand your collection. it's just plain fun and can be very relaxing.
 
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you can reload just about anywhere. i can remember my father reloading when we were youngsters on platform he made to hold the press on the coffee table in our small two bedroom apartment. he stored all the reloading equipment and supplies in the hall closet when he was done.

i had an uncle, who reloaded pistol ammo at his kitchen table with one of those old LEE hand press reloaders. kept everything in couple of large wooden crates in his garage when he was done reloading.

but you hear all the excuses on why people don't reload, and just buy ammo. but that's exactly what they are, excuses. "I don't have time to reload." "I don't have the room to dedicate to reloading." "It's too expensive to get into reloading."

none of those are true. i have worked jobs where i barely had time to eat and catch a few hours sleep, and i still found a few moments here and there to do some reloading. i have used a small space and small desk in the corner of my home office, or the spare bedroom, when i first started reloading years ago. LEE makes some really good basic reloading equipment, that is reasonably prices and can be bought as a kit. you can add more, or better equipment as time and finances allow.

reloading offers you more control over your ammo and ammo costs. it allows you to fine tune ammo to your specific guns. it's much cheaper to make premium ammo, than you can buy as factory ammo at the store.you can make ammo that isn't available commercially as factory ammo. it allows you to shoot more. it allows you to shoot more expensive calibers more reasonably. it allow your more options over the firearms you might otherwise pass on because of the expense of the ammo they use. it allows you to shoot older and more obsolete calibers, and expand your collection. it's just plain fun and can be very relaxing.
Aside from .22's, I have zero bolt action rifles. I made a conscious decision to sell my bolt guns. Accuracy of the semi-auto's is sufficiently close for any purpose I really need. I'm not a competitive bench rest shooter, and I dont have a lot of places (or time and opportunities) for long-distance shooting. Practically speaking, I never get to shoot past 300 yards. The ranges dont exist, and the countryside is too built up.

So under 300 yards, if I dont shoot for competition, a 1"-1.25" group for an reasonably accurate gun is fine. For my pistol caliber (and even 6.8) deer rifles, 2" accuracy is fine.

I have a closet full of ammo, and dont get to shoot as often as I would like. It seems kind of foolish to reload for a gun with a chrome-lined barrel, or a gun that works fine for a few deer shots and is sufficiently accurate at all practical distances with inexpensive factory ammo.

Dont get me wrong - I love accu-plinking. For putting holes in paper, premium .22 ammo is about 10-15 a box. So $0.20-$0.30 a shot. Yes, more can be spent, but I find goals like 10-shots at 50 yards under 1/2" enough to satisfy my plinking. If I want to do accurate 100 yard plinking at the range, I'll buy a .17 caliber rimfire. $0.30 a shot.

I try to be fairly practical, so I purposely limit my number of calibers. 9mm, .22, .308, and 5.56. 44 mag and 444 marlin are only because of caliber restrictions. 6.8 was for a specific need (lighter than .308, heavier than 5.56, semi-auto platform for deer and hogs).

I've paged through ABC's of reloading, have read the reloading threads, and priced equipment. Then I stopped - as much as I would enjoy crafting beautiful, accurate ammo - its a waste for me. My guns dont need the extra precision, the available loads are excellent for my needs.

I would be spending my time reloading because it makes me feel good. Frankly, there are more productive uses of my time - sleep, kids boyscouts, spouse, kids homework, trips, reading...

I can see reloading for competitive shooters, high volume shooters of centerfires, collectors and connoseurs. Beyond that, it's a hobby. I'll probably do it one day. Just not a strong reason to right now.

I have the same problem with firearms. There are things that are interesting: .40 caliber hi-point carbines, a really basic AR, a Rem. 700 - I like them, they are interesting, but they dont give me any additional capability I need, so I hem-haw, then dont buy.
 
Aside from .22's, I have zero bolt action rifles. I made a conscious decision to sell my bolt guns. Accuracy of the semi-auto's is sufficiently close for any purpose I really need. I'm not a competitive bench rest shooter, and I dont have a lot of places (or time and opportunities) for long-distance shooting. Practically speaking, I never get to shoot past 300 yards. The ranges dont exist, and the countryside is too built up.

So under 300 yards, if I dont shoot for competition, a 1"-1.25" group for an reasonably accurate gun is fine. For my pistol caliber (and even 6.8) deer rifles, 2" accuracy is fine.

I have a closet full of ammo, and dont get to shoot as often as I would like. It seems kind of foolish to reload for a gun with a chrome-lined barrel, or a gun that works fine for a few deer shots and is sufficiently accurate at all practical distances with inexpensive factory ammo.

Dont get me wrong - I love accu-plinking. For putting holes in paper, premium .22 ammo is about 10-15 a box. So $0.20-$0.30 a shot. Yes, more can be spent, but I find goals like 10-shots at 50 yards under 1/2" enough to satisfy my plinking. If I want to do accurate 100 yard plinking at the range, I'll buy a .17 caliber rimfire. $0.30 a shot.

I try to be fairly practical, so I purposely limit my number of calibers. 9mm, .22, .308, and 5.56. 44 mag and 444 marlin are only because of caliber restrictions. 6.8 was for a specific need (lighter than .308, heavier than 5.56, semi-auto platform for deer and hogs).

I've paged through ABC's of reloading, have read the reloading threads, and priced equipment. Then I stopped - as much as I would enjoy crafting beautiful, accurate ammo - its a waste for me. My guns dont need the extra precision, the available loads are excellent for my needs.

I would be spending my time reloading because it makes me feel good. Frankly, there are more productive uses of my time - sleep, kids boyscouts, spouse, kids homework, trips, reading...

I can see reloading for competitive shooters, high volume shooters of centerfires, collectors and connoseurs. Beyond that, it's a hobby. I'll probably do it one day. Just not a strong reason to right now.

I have the same problem with firearms. There are things that are interesting: .40 caliber hi-point carbines, a really basic AR, a Rem. 700 - I like them, they are interesting, but they dont give me any additional capability I need, so I hem-haw, then dont buy.
Mr. Shopfox, reloading isn't for everyone. and each person needs to decide whether it's for them or not. you have simply decided that it isn't for you.

i was simply laying out some of the excuses i have heard over the years why some people talk about maybe wanting to reload, but never do. and as i pointed out, they are simply excuses. and not valid one from my past experiences. a person either wants to reload, and they find a way around the obstacles, or they just talk and never do anything.

some are just like yourself and perfectly content with buying factory ammo. and there isn't anything wrong with that. ammo manufacturers spend a lot in R&D making ammo for people like yourself.

i like that i'm not limited to what is offered as factory ammo for my firearms. i like that if i'm at a gun show, or gun store, that my options are increased because i reload. i can't tell you how many firearms i have sold or traded many years ago when i didn't reload, because i couldn't afford to shoot them because of the cost of factory ammo. many of them i would dearly love to have back now, because i do reload, and i could afford to actually shoot them.

there are lots of good reasons to get into reloading. but, like i said, it's not for everyone.
 
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Dicks has Remington 700 ADL SPS stock 30-06 on sale for $329 (thin profile barrel and light synthetic stock), but for the money, would be tempting.
 
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I'm looking to get a new bolt action(either223/243/270/308) I haven't decided yet. I'm thinking between savage axis -mossberg patriot- Remington 783 or Marlin xs7 . Does anyone have any experience with them or suggestions on caliber with them I know a few of those don't come in those 4 calibers but I'm open to any please let me know what y'all think
A Remington 700 SPS TAC .223 is only about $625. 20" heavy barrel and very accurate. However, it's not chambered for 5.56 and the trigger stinks (and most don't like the stock). Not a big deal for me on the 5.56 ammo. Most of the really accurate target ammo is .223 anyways. Mine is basically stock from the factory. The only thing I'm going to replace is the trigger w/Timney.

Automotive tire Road surface Asphalt Motor vehicle Wood
 
I recently bought a Ruger American Ranch in 7.62x39. It utilizes Mini 30 magazines. With PPU 123 grain SP it is MOA. Wolf 123 HP about 1.5 MOA. Silver Bear was a disappointment. I am saving my brass from the PPU. PPU runs about 40 cents a round. Wolf is 25 cents or less.
The rifle is also made in 5.56x45 and 300 BO but does not use the Mini 14 mags. I am hoping they bring one out that does. It would only require a barrel change on the 30 to get 6.5 Grendel added to the line up.
 
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Here's MY $.02 on the subject of reloading/handloading vs factory. The ammo factories have an extremely difficult task to produce ammo that will be safe in ALL the firearms out there chambered for that cartridge, decent velocity, make the bullet good enough to not have good accuracy, but exterior AND terminal performance, and make it all fast enough so that they can make a profit, and to meet demand.

When I handload (YES there IS a difference between handloading & reloading), I'm working up THE perfect load for that 1 particular rifle, and am unlimited in selection of components, any kind of jacketed bullet I want available (rifles, I mostly cast my own for handguns), load exactly what MY rifles prefers, I can double or even triple check myself & loads every step of the way, and even change components around to discover THE most accurate load with the best performance for the use I'm loading for, all at a GREATLY reduced cost! I'm not under any obligation to make thousands of rounds per day, and once I discover THE perfect load, in almost all my rifles THAT load is married for THAT rifle from then on, same as when I put he scope on that I've selected to be best on THAT rifle.

The only exception/s is my Browning A-Bolt 2 chambered in 30-06 of which I have 2 pet loads for. The 1st load is strictly for whitetails, coyotes, hogs, & pronghorns-150 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip, and the load for anything larger-180 gr Nosler Accubond for use on elk or larger.

As to what rifle, the last time I bought a couple A-Bolt 2, both chambered in 30-06, 1 to build a full custom with, stripped without firing to make a killer Claro Walnut stock, Douglas "ultramatch" air gauged premium .358 barrel to chamber in 35 Whelen, and the other to leave the factory barrel on if it met MY accuracy demands. They was only $503 each with free shipping. The Browning A-Bolt 2 is perhaps THE best action on the market in MY opinion, with advanced tech & features that leave most others cold! Other wise choices on a budget would include Ruger American, The Marlin XL-7/XS-7 BUT they were discontinued when Remington bought Marlin so no longer available, and the Browning A-Bolt 3.
 
I buy at WM, .nothing wrong with it. I got a job, family and other things going on besides sitting in my garage pressing loads thinking " man everyone else is going to be #!$@%* when the world comes to an end". Sure reloading Is the way to go if you want to send a thousand pills down range a month and you have a grand tied up in your riffle and another grand in your glass. At that point you want to get the most out of the money you laid down for it. Out of all the guns I own one of my most favorite to shoot is my gunsite scout in 308. With CHEAP tulammo or wolf, I hit an 8" target at 200 yrs, 8 out of 10 times with iron sites. Happy camper. I've kill 3 bucks with factory federal soft points with it at 100 yds +. The nugget, study what you got, get what you can afford, and use what makes you smile.[/QUOTE]
 
I recently bought a Ruger American Ranch in 7.62x39. It utilizes Mini 30 magazines. With PPU 123 grain SP it is MOA. Wolf 123 HP about 1.5 MOA. Silver Bear was a disappointment. I am saving my brass from the PPU. PPU runs about 40 cents a round. Wolf is 25 cents or less.
The rifle is also made in 5.56x45 and 300 BO but does not use the Mini 14 mags. I am hoping they bring one out that does. It would only require a barrel change on the 30 to get 6.5 Grendel added to the line up.
My like of the Ruger American Ranch Rifle has changed rapidly. I have one in 5.56 with a MDT chassis, and the 300 BLK, 450 Bushmaster, 7.62x39, all stock. Like you, I clamored for a Ranch 300 BLK with Mini 30 mags and a 6.5 Grendel Ranch Rifle.

Well Ruger answered on both counts but their answer really disappointed me. The Ranch 300 BLK uses AR mags, and the 6.5 Grendel also uses AR mags , but is in the Predator platform. Although I always knew, the flush magazines and MDT chassis covered up the fact that the ranch rifle uses an action much longer than required for the cartridges chambered. Had Ruger used the mini 30 mags, the magazine catch between the trigger guard and magazine would still have hidden it. But the AR mag with it's side mounted catch shows it for what it is. Kind of like putting a super model in a pair of combat fatigues. If I am going to use a short action, why not just get the 6.5 CM?

Thinking about selling my Ranch Rifles and replacing them with the Howa 1500 Mini Action. $457.94 is the OTD price at my FFL. I see one in 6.5 Grendel and 7.62x39 in my future.
 
I'm looking to get a new bolt action(either223/243/270/308) I haven't decided yet. I'm thinking between savage axis -mossberg patriot- Remington 783 or Marlin xs7 . Does anyone have any experience with them or suggestions on caliber with them I know a few of those don't come in those 4 calibers but I'm open to any please let me know what y'all think
Get them all. Each rifle in each caliber.

Really, buy what you love. Logic comes later
 
You can stiffen up some of the Tupperware and make them very usable.
I pushed the creekbottom one day in deer season..........put two dings in the walnut buttstock of my Ruger #1.
While plastic is boring........it does have some advantages.
Had a factory checkered fingergroove 10/22. Shot good, looked great. Got caught in snow/rain with it. Was nice, but not mint.Any more marks on the stock would depreciate its value.
Sold it.
Replacement gun wears plastic. No worries afield.
 
Sports equipment Air gun Machine gun Trigger Shotgun


Tupperware, freefloated, stiffened forearm.....does .75" at 100 w cheap WW 80gr.
Have not worked up handloads for it, just a .243 yote rifle.
Prev version (sold when divorce came along).........was .5" rifle (five shots- w four of them at .330", repeated ). 70gr Nosler BT on max charge of 4350.
POS Savage Axis got the same treatment..........100gr factory ammo, did .5" at 100. That stock was still too flexy at wrist, and the comb low (made riser)........overall just a crappy feeling stock. Much better the 700 version (look and feel). Dumped the Savage and got the pictured 700. Cheap camo spray can paint job...........looks like new. Been 5 or 6 yrs now.
 
I used to reload for performance. Doing so really made some rifles/handguns shine.
Not really a cost savings......as premium components, the equipment........the more shooting and hunting due to wanting to test ;)
Hell I'd burn 30 bucks in gas just to shoot a couple of woodchucks.
Practical?
If I wanted to save money or justify the expense of my chosen hobbies...........I'd never have gotten married or had kids. Those are the most expensive things a guy can do.
Should have stuck to rifles and reloading.
Much much cheaper.
 
The Savage Axis plastic stock sucks.
You will want to change it.
Figure that into your bargain rifle cost.
The other models might also need stock change. Dunno.
Not a fan of laminates. They may be better...........but still aint perfect.
The older 700 Tupperware is usable IMHO, with minor mods.
 
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