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Re-Manufacture or Not?

  • Re-Manufacture

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  • Original, made in 1861

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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, I am trying to sell a 1861 Enfield musket/muzzleloader. What I really need to know is if this is a re-manufacture or an original. See the pics below.

It is in very good condition for its age. Its wood stock is one piece. It has what looks to be an original sling on it and has ramrod. .58 caliber. It is definitely shootable.

The top reads:
ARMI SAN PAOLO-BRESCIA-ITALY
CAL. 58-3 1/2 DRAMS BLACK POWDER ONLY

Engraved by the hammer, there is a crown, and underneath the crown it reads:

1861
ENFIELD


Also, any other info that I should know would be helpful. This gun is also for sale so offers are welcome. Thanks
 

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I don't think that an original would specify between black and smokeless powder.
 

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And I'd doubt the Italians were supplying Enfields to the CSA back then...
 

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If that is an original, it is in better condition than the finest museum example in existance.
 

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Is rifle still for sale?

Hello, My name is Ryan. My wife and I are just starting out in civil war re-enacting, and I was wondering if your rifle was still for sale, and for how much. Location? Thanks for your time.

Sincerely,
Ryan Buenconsejo
 

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The finest reproductions were made by Parker Hale in Birmingham England and imported in the 60s/70s. These were extremely good quality and used the original Enfield patterns.
 

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It is definitely a repro. First off as mentioned the originals would not have markings to distinguish between black power and smokeless powder. At the time black powder is the only thing they had. Also they didn't call it black powder it was referred to as gun powder. Only with the invention of smokeless powder was there a need to distinguish between the two and that was long after 1861. Secondly as mentioned Italy was not supplying Enfield’s to any country, England was. The Third and final point is the markings on the lock plate are completely wrong. If it was an original it probably would have been made by Tower Arms of England. The correct markings are as follows- on the left hand side of the hammer it should have a crown over the name "Tower." On the right hand side of the hammer it should have the manf name and the city. No where on an original would you see the crown over Enfield then the date. Pictured below is an antique 1853 Enfield and you can see the difference.

 

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Yes it is a reproduction, still a good looking rifle. During the Civil War.... the South Sent gun buyers over seas. The went to France, England, Germany and other Eastern European country's. The bought as many old muskets they could. Trying always to buy 58cal. to try to only have one caliber. So they had no problems as far as supply. Sometimes they didn't get 58s, but they tried to stay with 58s. The south had no steel to make rifles or hand guns. That is why they had a lot of brass framed revolvers. That is why they went over seas. After about a year the Union started doing the same. Not because the lack of muskets. But, to try to buy them before the Rebs.
If you look at my avatar, that is an original 1857 Tower of England
Musket 002.jpg Two more pictures of my Tower. However this one
I think came from the Middle East. Although all
Musket 001.jpg writing is in English, not Arabic. Which they say
there should be. For me I don't care where it
comes from. It is 157 years old. And fun to
shoot.
 

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1861 Enfield

Hi Tom,
I'm a CSA re-enactor. I am looking to buy an Enfield 1861 replica musket. Is it still for sale and how much did you want for it and your location. Thanks, Tom Heitzman
 

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1861

If it was made in Brescia Italy than it definitely is a reproduction, Brescia is a big hub for repro. black powder starting in the 1960's, I even have a 44 Kentucky long rifle myself, made in Brescia in the early 1970's
a quick check in any gun info sight will confirm this....
 

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@ crazy dude88

If youre looking for a rifle to do reenacting...I dont think you should buy this one...just one the grounds that this doesnt look like any rifle ive seen from the civil war...its got a shorter barrel and a chopped foregrip...also take consideration into which side youll fight for, the yanks or the rebs. this is a reb rifle. rebels had a larger selection of weapons, english weapons revolvers and rifles, northern weapons from before secession, self owned-made rifles and muskets and other local gunsmiths creations. Some even afforded to buy henry repeaters or sharps carbines. Most of the guns can be found as reproductions and Uberti is one of the best.

Uberti 1860 Army Conversion, 1858 New Army Conversion, 1851 Navy Conversion, and 1871-1872 Open Top
 

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LUBrowningBoy, no disrespect intended but you don't know much about Civil War guns or the C.W. in general. That is an Enfield Musketoon. Not a Reb rifle as the North bought more Enfields than the South did. Both sides used a variety of weapons. The North even used converted flintlock smoothbores in the beginning.
Uberti does make good clones but not of muskets. The link you provided is for cartridge conversions that didn't come about till three years after the war. ASP is a pretty decent brand but is now Euroarms.
 

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yea i know the link is bad...i meant it to lead just to the homepage.

and yes i knew the north used converted smoothbores.

im not trying to say i know everything about the civil war but im majoring in military history but the CW is no area of expertise.

just saying that GENERALLY when u see anything having to do with the civil war, the north uses 1861's, sharps rifles and carbines and maybe a henry here or there while the south generally would use whitworths and enfields and some local southern companies weapons.
 

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It is a repo. and it was used in the south with the artillery by the loaders and support men for close fighting.
 

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Brief note on CW weapons- ONE of the reasons for the length of a rifle barrel was to put the muzzle FORWARD of the guy in the rank ahead of you- when firing in ranks. The artillery had shorter (musketoon) firearms- since THEY did not fire in ranks. There is a fairly brisk business known as Defarbing- removing modern markings from a repro muzzleloader so that a reenactor is not standing there holding a "Made in Italy" rifle.

Popular bumper sticker around here for CW reenactors- "I'd rather be shooting Yankees".
 
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