Need some help with a powder dispenser issue.

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by RMP1394-RLTW, Aug 10, 2010.

  1. RMP1394-RLTW

    RMP1394-RLTW New Member

    110
    0
    0
    Back again with another FNG question!

    I am using my father in law's powder dispenser (Redding from the 60's). I cannot get an accurate, consistant charge using Unique or 3831. obviously they are somewhat larger powders but I would think it would be somewhat consistant. I am gettinig anywhere from .2-.5 diferences in throws. having said that, I can reload with accurate No. 2 and be consistant all day long. I guess what my question is, is this the norm or is it time to replace the dispenser? if so, any recomendations? Thanks in advance!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 3, 2010
  2. hunter Joe

    hunter Joe New Member

    2,361
    1
    0
    I know that Titegroup meters better than Clays in my Uniflow powder measurer. But it still doesn't drop bench rest grade loads. I've been told to stop being so freak'n fussy and drop 10 loads and take an average. I still can't do this even when I'm loading handgun for the range.

    I throw a load, weigh it, adjust it, and then seat the bullet. Very slow process but I don't mind spending hours at the reloading bench.

    I'm debating whether or not to buy a completely automated progressive press. This would probably in the long run make me even crazier.

    Good luck, Joe
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2010

  3. noylj

    noylj Member

    270
    1
    18
    Consistent charges

    Any "fluffy" powder will be somewhat inconsistent when using a volumetric measure. However, ±0.5gn is a bit excessive unless talking about rifle loads.
    Weight of powder is just not that critical unless you are working at max or over.
    I don't know about benchrest shooters now, but up until the '90s I knew many benchrest shooters who never weighed their charges. Volume throws were all they cared about and used vernier gauges so they could always dial back to the setting they wanted.
    Unless there is a lot of play in the measure, it is almost certainly still good.
    Do you do two "knocks" on the upstroke and the down stroke? Do you use the same force/speed/vibration every time?
    I load Unique all day long and the most i see is maybe a ±0.2gn variation.
    If you want to KNOW that every charge is the same weight (±0.1gn), get a powder dispenser like the RCBS ChargeMaster. It will dispense a charge about as fast as you can seat a bullet on the previously charged case.
     
  4. lonyaeger

    lonyaeger New Member

    10,270
    1
    0
    What is an acceptable tolerance when measuring a load? I'm getting a variance anywhere from .0 to .4 with my powder measure from throw to throw.

    Seems like the adjustment for the powder measure is not very precise or easy to use....an RCBS Uniflow.
     
  5. JonM

    JonM Moderator

    20,110
    19
    38
    when i load hunting ammo i measure each chare by hand on a scale. its such a small ammount of rounds its no biggee. this lets me use a stiffer charge near max safely.

    for just target shooting plinking i pick a median load weight that wont bring me over max or under mnimum if the measure decides to act up. i spot check about 1 round in 20. i use progressive and single stange.

    unless your going for super accuracy i wouldnt worry too much long as the charges are in the +- max min
     
  6. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

    21,833
    3
    0
    Are you using a powder baffle?
     

    Attached Files:

  7. lonyaeger

    lonyaeger New Member

    10,270
    1
    0
  8. lonyaeger

    lonyaeger New Member

    10,270
    1
    0
    Nope, no baffle. Now I have to buy something else??? :(
     
  9. hunter Joe

    hunter Joe New Member

    2,361
    1
    0
    OK cane, what kind of dispenser is that and where you get the stink'n baffle? I can see why that baffle would work.
     
  10. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

    13,934
    4
    0
    I would start with a baffle. by 3831 did you mean 4831?

    4831 is a big stick powder and tends to not meter well. Make sure you are operating the measure exactly the same every throw. That will go into the consistency of the loads it throws. Also try not to operate the measure too fast.

    If after adding the baffle you are still getting inconsistent loads See if you can send it back to redding. Never hurts to ASK them.


    Powder baffles.

    MidwayUSA - Advanced Search

    http://www.redding-reloading.com/contact-redding-reloading
     
  11. noylj

    noylj Member

    270
    1
    18
    powder Baffle

    The best and cheapest that I have found is the Downrange Powder Baffle for Hornady, Pacific Powder Measure for $3.79 at MidwayUSA. It fits most powder measures I have.
    The other two are Lyman #55 Powder Measure Powder Baffle for $8.99 and Redding 3, 3BR Powder Measure Powder Baffle for $5.59. You can also just cut out an aluminum can, and bend it and notch it to fit. The idea of the baffle is to maintain the same powder pressure head at the cavity so the measure doesn't see heavy pressure when the measure if full and decreasing pressure to fill teh cavity as you dispense more and more powder.
    The main "problem" with a powder baffle is forgetting it is there and turning the measure upside down to pour out the powder and having the baffle come out, plug the funnel, and getting powder all over the place. Powder and primers seem to live to make a mess.
    Also, I see measures as having a lot of voodoo, and there are just some days when a given measure will not throw a consistent charge (barometric pressure, phase of the moon, how the measure feels that day, who knows).
    I really recommend that you try to meter the powder by banging the knocking the metering assembly a couple of times to get the powder into the cavity and then when you drop the powder to again bang the metering assembly a couple of times. "Bang Bang" up and "Bang Bang" down. Some of the old measures had little hammers on them so you could "clank, clank" a couple of times.
    ±0.2 grains is not an issue. What you should do is meter out at least 10 loads (working with a steady, repeatable rhythm that you can use always and doing the "clang, clang." These can just be metered right into the powder can as they are just to settle the powder and you. Then meter out 10 more charges and weigh each one. Calculate the Standard Deviation. Divide the S.D. by the average charge to get the Coefficient of Variance. The CoV should be less than 3% (less than 0.03). You can do this for each charge weight for each powder you meter in that measure. If you want a more statistically accurate number, you should meter out at least 20 charges. A lot of people never weigh an individual charge. They just weight 10 charges, divide by 10, and go from there.
    As I said, if you just can't accept the CoV and you want each charge to be of identical weight, you will need to weight each charge. This is slow, but nobody can criticize other that to say "you're wasting your time," and we all do that any way.
     
  12. lonyaeger

    lonyaeger New Member

    10,270
    1
    0
    Those are pretty expensive, but the beauty is that it will interface with the RCBS digital scale that I already have. So I could expect much more consistent accuracy with it, regardless of the type of powder?
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2010
  13. hunter Joe

    hunter Joe New Member

    2,361
    1
    0
    Lon, you the man and by the way, good morning it's a wonderful day in the hood.
     
  14. lonyaeger

    lonyaeger New Member

    10,270
    1
    0
    Morning there, Joe. Yes, it IS a beautiful day!
     
  15. budman46

    budman46 New Member

    124
    0
    0
    RMP1394-RLTW,

    i've used an rcb, lyman and dillon measures for 40 years and have lots of experience with unigue, red dot and herco...all similar in size/shape, without the variations you've noted. are you consistent in the way you work the charging handle? throwing the charge should allow the same residence time in the fill and dispense position for best results.

    a "soft" delivery followed by a faster/more energetic throw of the lever can account for variations you described.

    4831 and other log powders don't pose the problem most imagine...a .5 grain difference in a 50+gr charge is 1% or less...if you're close to maximum, you should always weigh your charges; benchrest shooters don't weigh their charges and they shoot mighty small groups.

    budman
     
  16. lonyaeger

    lonyaeger New Member

    10,270
    1
    0
    Thanks, I'll be sure to be consistent in the way I operate the handle.
     
  17. budman46

    budman46 New Member

    124
    0
    0
    re. powder measure baffles:

    no need to spend $$$ to buy one...one can be fabricated from cardboard or a portion of soda can cut to fit your measure with scissors. just be sure to allow for powder to flow around it.

    budman

    ignorance is its own reward
     
  18. RMP1394-RLTW

    RMP1394-RLTW New Member

    110
    0
    0
    Sorry I have disapeard for so long! All very good advise and it is much apopreciated! With work and my two boys I have not had too much time to play areound on the computer, I hope I did not piss off anyone by not replying.

    To be honest, I simply changed my puwders to acomodate the dispenser. I started with Unique, went to No. 2 and have settled Power Pistol. I have been really happy with Power Pistol in 9mm and .40 cal. I just got a new toy (Springfield Range Officer) and just started reloading .45 as well. I went to a Lee Pro 1000 and have done some relading on it as well. Not sure if I will stick to it or not, I really dont like how I cant completely control every phase of the reloading process. I am also having some issues with the primer feeding. I have read all of the help tips but have not had time to fully try everything out yet.

    Thanks again for the advise!