Need some advice and knowledge

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by JesterSpirit, Apr 10, 2011.

  1. JesterSpirit

    JesterSpirit New Member

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    I am interested in long range target shooting. Ive always been a natural good shot and the only experience I have is the Army where I shot expert and ranges of 300 meters with iron sights. I am looking to eventually shoot at 1000+ yards. The rifle i have been considering is the Remington 700
    .300 with a fixed 10x scope. Please keep in mind I have very little knowledge so speak easy however I have been doing extensive research. Thanks alot!!
     
  2. doctherock

    doctherock New Member

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    You came to the right place for an answer that's for sure. However, if you could, please go to the introduction section and tell us a little about yourself.
     

  3. Wambli

    Wambli Member

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    The Remington is a great choice, now that being out of the way, which Remington 700 model? Saying you picked the Remington 700 is like saying you'd like to get a Chevy. There are miriads of models and options available.

    Second what is your budget? We can give you recommendations at every price point but it would be a waste of time for me to tell you to buy a 40X if you are looking to spend $500 and an SPS will get you there to start.

    Third and this is a STRONGLY debated point. Why .300? Even if your eventual goal is 1,000 yards I know guys that shoot "Master" at 1,000 all day long with a .308 and their shoulders are not busted up at the end of the day.

    Are you planing on competing formaly or just paper punching for your own satisfaction? Many types of competition have rules about chamberings, rifle weights and configurations etc so you want to make sure your rifle stays within the parameters of the rule book.

    Please do not get nervous about all the questions, selecting a rifle for your purposes is a step by step process and you just got started. Even if you wanted to keep it simple it is still not an insignificant investment so you want to make the best choices at every price point and enjoy the process and end result.
     
  4. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Active Member

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    Come on Wambli,If set up right,a 300WM will not beat you to death.
    Now you won't be taking it out on a tracking expedition unless you like carrying around a 12-15lb rifle all day.

    While the 308 will certainly do the job,a 300WM just does it faster/flatter.
    If you want a lighter rifle,I'd say 308 or a 300WM with a muzzle brake installed.

    I enjoy shooting both calibers,and have shot up to 200 rounds out of each in a day,without "busting up" my shoulder.
    Set it up for the task,and it's just a tool for the work!
     
  5. Wambli

    Wambli Member

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    I knew this would become a discussion point :D

    I agree that a properly set up .300 WinMag will not be ridiculously punishing but in all cases the same configuration in a .308 will be easier to shoot for longer periods of time and cheaper to feed. It's also an easier chambering to learn on than a .300 WM. I'm not recoil sensitive and my .300 WinMag is a lightweight hunting gun and I have no issues with the recoil but many folks do, specialy the ones new to target shooting.

    My personal .308 has an OpsInc brake which reduces the recoil to .223 level. I can shoot for days on end with no recoil distraction and it is neat to see the holes show up on the paper through the scope. This is also a reason why I asked if he was planning on shooting competitively. Some classes of LR comp will not allow the .300 WM and some do not allow brakes.

    Last but not least most folks that dream of shooting 1,000 yards will never really get there when they realize how much work, commitment and knowledge it takes to become proficient at that range and the .300 is slightly overkill for the normal target ranges most folks take on, 100-500 yards.

    Hey I'm a big .300 WM fan but I'm just giving the OP who is not a seasoned rifle shooter some food for thought. NEVER said the .300 is not a good round.
     
  6. JesterSpirit

    JesterSpirit New Member

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    WOW! I thought the 700 was a model number!

    Well I guess Im guna shoot paper just for my own satisfaction. If I get good enough I could compete but if that were the case I would buy a new rifle just for it.

    My budget is maybe around $2000 for now. I wanted to keep the price down a little just in case I suck and cant push my range out.

    And I was looking at the 300 cause like what txhillbilly said, I heard it was faster and flatter. My original choice was 25-06 but others corrected me.

    Maybe I should start with a lesser rifle and learn to fire at closer ranges then work my way up? I would certainly not mind owning many weapons.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2011
  7. mrm14

    mrm14 Active Member

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    I have a 1000 yard target rifle in 300 Win. Mag. and it works well when I do my job. Felt recoil can be mitigated by use of a good timed brake and in my case I also use a 1" Decel pad. In a practice session or a match I usually shoot 100 or so rounds with no problem. The felt recoil of this rifle with the brake and the Decel pad seems a bit less than a .223 caliber round.

    I have a Jewell trigger with pull weight at 1lb. 5oz. Good for competition, but I would set trigger weight a tad higher if your going to hunt with it.

    For 1000 yards you'll need to get a +20 moa scope base mount for the adjustment in elevation needed to get that far out.

    With the guys that I shoot with I've seen no one use any factory stock. I have my rifle bedded in a McMillan A-5 which works well for me.

    When it comes to scopes you'll not be buying the average lower priced varities. The one you have may be fine. The club I shoot with use mostly Night Force brand scopes and with a close second being Premier Reticles scopes. Theres some US Optics and Schmidt Bender scopes in the mix as well. I use the Premiere Reticles 5-25X56 scope. If you buy a scope make sure the reticle matches the knobs. ie; MOA reticle - MOA knobs, Mill reticle - Mill knobs. Matching the glass to the elevation and windage knobs just makes life much more simplier.

    The disiplin I shoot is "Practical Tactical" and the time allowed at each fireing line is 10 minuets to send 10 down range. A detachable magazine is a must for this endevour if your going to compete as time is of the essence. If your going to shoot "F" class you'll have more time to send rounds down range and detachable magazines wont be as much needed. I use the Badger Ordance detachable magazine bottom metal with 5 round AI magazines.

    Barrel life with the 300 Win. Mag. will usually be give or take about 1500 rounds depending on how close the clearance your bullet is from the lands. In the case of the 300 Win. Mag. it's the throat of the barrel that will wear out first. I've sent 708 rounds through my barrel and it's still sweet but I've already ordered another barrel to replace it for when it goes south. I'm using a 28" Kreiger #9 MTU barrel threaded for an Elite Iron muzzel brake.

    I also had the reciever trued and am using an oversize recoil lug.

    I'm using my own ammunition with 190 gr. SMK's which works well. With this round I'm getting about 3080 fps MV. I started to develope a load using the Berger # 30419 210 gr. bullet last summer and had to put it down for awhile as the 190 SMK's were getting it done and I needed the trigger time more than I needed to spend time to work out a load for the 210 Bergers. I'll be back to working out the load for the 210 Bergers later this year. Also I found that the Black Hills target ammunition using the 190 SMK bullet works good just not quite as consistant as my own loads.

    You'll probably want to get something like the Kestrel 4500 pocket weather tracker to get the temperature, barro prressure, altitude, and humidity to figure out your bullet drop. Also this meter gives you your wind speed and direction for windage deveation. With this meter you'll also probably want to get some sort of ballistic calcualtor that you can carry in the field. I use the exbal software that is available form Night Force which I've put into a PDA. If you have one of those smart phones this software will work in it as well. Theres a slide rule type of calcualtor for alot less $$ that works good also called Milldot Master.

    Well thats all I can think of for now and good luck with your rifle.
     
  8. dnthmn2004

    dnthmn2004 New Member

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    If your price range is $2000, why are you bothering with Remington 700s? Why not check out the target series rifles from Savage.
     
  9. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    try looking at savage. right now they are producing better guns than remington in equivelant price points.

    you can get a realllly good bolt gun around 1k$ for a starter and get a reallly good scope for long range shooting.

    i think your better off getting a super good scope it will move with you from gun to gun if you decide you want a different stick later. then buying a rifle with the rest of your budget.

    just my opinion.
     
  10. dnthmn2004

    dnthmn2004 New Member

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  11. mrm14

    mrm14 Active Member

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    I would start with a rifle in .308 Win. while learning the skills you'll need to consistantly shoot out to 1000 yards. The barrel life will be considerably longer than the 300 Win Mag and the ammunition will be considerably less expensive. If your not reloading your own ammunition the Federal or Black Hills target ammunition with 175 gr. SMK's. will get you out to 1000. I would go with a minimum of a 24" barrel and prerferrably with a 26" barrel. Scope will still be a spendy factor for when you get out to 1000 yards.

    Later you could have your .308 Win. rifle re barreled in 260 Rem and you would have a most excellent long range 1000 yard contender. I myself am having a new targer rifle built in 260 Rem for 1000 yard target. In the club that I shoot with the 260 caliber has been dominating for near a couple of years now.
     
  12. JesterSpirit

    JesterSpirit New Member

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    That would be why I am here asking questions. Besides the M-16 I learned in the Army my experience is amateur at best so when I ask about the Remington 700 and/or trying to target shoot as a hobby with a objective of trying to engage at 1000yards its because I need knowledge from the experienced.

    So a cheaper .308 with a nicer scope? or maybe a .223 to learn on? Maybe start at 500 yards and work out as I learn?
     
  13. mrm14

    mrm14 Active Member

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    IMO stick with the .308 Win. to start with. Heavier grain weight bullets will buck wind better in distance. You can't go wrong with a Remington 700 as there is so much aftermarket stuff available for them. Besides that, they're inexpensive yet relitively accurate and will allow you to get better glass if you need it. Some here will loath the 700, but they are not in time usually going to modify their rifle for this long range endevour. Most of the spendy aftermarket custom recievers such as Surgeons, GA Precision, Pierce Engineering, BAT, etc... are patterned off the 700 action.

    If in time you really get into this disiplin of shooting you'll most likely be using one of these type of aftermarket reciervers anyhow.
     
  14. opaww

    opaww New Member

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    I shoot a Howa 1500 chambered in .308. It comes piller bedded recessed crowned barrel, 24 inch BBL. Just the rifle is some place around $450, which would leave you with money to buy a good scope. Maybe a good Night Force or Hawke Optics Frontier 6-24x50 SF. the better the scope the less trouble you will have in the future.

    Myself I like shooting from 100 to 500 yards, 1000 yards take a lot of work and knowledge and I am lazy
     
  15. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    The .308 will be a better choice at 500 over a .223. I have never cared for anything over a 42mm objective scope, that is just me. I have a Howa M&P heavy barrel .308. 15+ years and she has been great. I use to shoot at 700 yards, but I'm happy w/ 400 now. I prefer the Howa over the Savage and 700. The Savage bolt is very foreign to me. I do have one in 7mm Rem Mag, but it is the only one. The Howa has a heavier action then the 700, which translates to more ridged, better accuracy. It also has a flat bottom receiver, so it is easy to bed. They already come pillar bedded. I have never had to touch mine as it is a tack driver. I decent scope would be a Sightron, that is what I use. I replaced a 6-24x40mmAO with the Sightron SII 3-12x42mmAO. I don't feel I lost a thing. The glass is very clear and the whole rig is very accurate. I can now hunt more effectively w/ it also. Recoil is very light. Shoot everything I've fed it very well.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2011
  16. JesterSpirit

    JesterSpirit New Member

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    OK, im learning but whats bedded, pillared, crowned?

    Im leaning towards the .308 (btw are .308 and .300 interchangeable similar to .357 and .38?)

    And do I want a variable scope? i figured a fixed scope would make it easier for me to learn. Tho I could be wrong.

    Also Thanks everyone for all the help for far.
     
  17. Wambli

    Wambli Member

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    .308 and .300 are not interchangeable. It's one or the other.

    You can make do with a fixed 10x but why if a variable is more versatile and for a quality scope the price diference is minimal.

    Pillars and bedding are things you do to a stock to assure a more positive mating of the action to the stock which aides in accuracy. The right stock will at least be pillar bedded. A full length bedding block should be better.
     
  18. mrm14

    mrm14 Active Member

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    Sometimes a picture is worth 1000 words.

    To the left a 308 Win. Cartridge. (short action) To the right a 300 Win. Mag. cartridge. (long action)

    308 Win. & 300 Win. Mag 001.jpg

    Breakdown of Remington traget rifle showing some of the parts

    003.jpg
     
  19. Wambli

    Wambli Member

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    Good move with the pictures!!! It should make his life a little easier.