[Kemofarms]

I have picked up a holland and holland 1893 14 bore paradox. I have had gun checked out gone through cleaned up. Barrel x rayed. It’s solid. My issue is I can’t find anyone who can manufacture ammo for me. I have barrel casting. Very little info available on ballistics and reloading. If anyone can direct me please let me know.

 

[Sniper03]

Kemo,

I pulled up the history and pictures on the H&H Paradox. One nice looking weapon.

03

 

[danf_fl]

Are you sure it is a 14 bore?
THE CARTRIDGE COLLECTOR

 

[G66enigma]

I know literally nothing about the H&H doubles, but ...

Here's some info on a nice 8-bore that was up for auction in 2018. It indicates the cased gun came with tools and forms for crafting one's own 8-bore ammo.

ROBUST 8 BORE HAMMER "PARADOX" BY HOLLAND & HOLLAND WITH LOADING TOOLS AND MOLD IN TWO-TIERED OAK AND LEATHER CASE. - James D. Julia, Auctioneers

ROBUST 8 BORE HAMMER "PARADOX" BY HOLLAND & HOLLAND WITH LOADING TOOLS AND MOLD IN TWO-TIERED OAK AND LEATHER CASE. (ca 1893) Cal. 8 bore. All "Paradox" guns are rare, and have become very desirable, but 8 bores are by far the rarest with only 69 being produced by the maker. The "Paradox"...

www.morphyauctions.com

Perhaps there's an appropriate H&H kit specific to the bore of your gun.

H&H has apparently begun making newly-minted Paradox guns. Very possibly they've got ammo tools/forms (kits) that'll work with your gun. Might be worth contacting them. If nothing else, perhaps they could point you in the right direction, say to a classic guns vendor that is known for having vintage ammo tools/forms.

The Paradox Gun

hollandandholland.com

 

[BillM]

Try Gad Custom Cartridges in Wisconsin.

 

[Kemofarms]

Are you sure it is a 14 bore?
THE CARTRIDGE COLLECTOR

Are you sure it is a 14 bore?
THE CARTRIDGE COLLECTOR

Well that is the discussion if it’s a 14 bore or the paradox. Not a lot of info out there been to several guys with the rifle. Even contacted the National firearm museum and they scratched there head at the rifle. Holland and holland has it on the books as a paradox. But I question the barrel because it is rifled all the way down

 

[G66enigma]

If anyone's got a line on makers or vendors of the classic H&H x-bore rounds or the forming tools for such, I'm guessing that member @tac foley might know of some.

 

[Kemofarms]

If anyone's got a line on makers or vendors of the classic H&H x-bore rounds or the forming tools for such, I'm guessing that member @tac foley might know of some.

Oh wow awesome

 

[tac foley]

Sorry to say that tac foley knows less about any Holland & Holland combination gun than he does about underwater cake-making for the deaf.

In general, from what little experience I have regarding Holland & Holland, just making an observation that people who buy a $100K gun usually have people who supply the ammunition.

I suppose I could call them up and see what, if anything, they might recommend...

'kay. Just done it. I'll post any resplone.

BTW, here is a note about about 14g - true, he is talking about a shotgun, but.....

John Clements
UK
This 14 bore round action, Damascus, doubled barrelled hammer gun is owned by John Clements. It was bought a few years ago and brought back to life by the acquisition of a box of 14 bore Eley Gastight cartridges. It would appear that 14 bore cartridges stopped being manufactured in around 1920, which may explain the excellent condition of this gun, but also makes firing it difficult. There have been several suggestions that various continental manufacturers are still making limited quantities of 14 bore cartridges but as yet I have not found them.

I obtained a quantity of 14 bore brass cases but unbeknown to me 14 bore cartridges where made in two sizes of rim, either thick or thin. Unluckily the gun is thin rim and the cartridges were thick but luckily this way round they could be machined down. They do work but have a habit of being difficult to extract. I have loaded the gastightes several times but the best way I have found to shoot the gun is to use conventional 16 bore cartridges and wrap a couple of layers of masking tape round the case to create a snug fit. This works extremely well and she kills pheasant as well as the best of them when I point her in the right direction. While she has been nitro proofed I tend to load the old gastights with black powder which work really effectively with 28gm of No 5’s.

The gun has recently been converted to take 16 bore cartridges by the fitting of chamber sleeves to take the slightly small cartridge. This is a reversible process as the sleeves are only glued in place and no material has been taken away from the chambers.

Sadly, you would probably like to shoot it with ball, in which case, as we say over here, you are stuffed. Pending, of course more useful advic(s)e from Messrs Holland & Holland.

 

[Sniper03]

Tac,
Once again! Excellent information as normal!
And yes, being Damascus as mentioned only black powder should be used!

03

 

[JTJ]

With the 16 bore sleeves it is a shotgun as the rifling won't engage a 16 bore slug. Some of the alleged Paradox shells I saw pictured were plastic shot shells. There are rumors of 14 bore being made in Brazil. With proper dimensions a machinist could make some shells but it will be expensive. With typical BP pressures they would last a long time. Shot shells are fairly easy to load with basic tools. You don't even need a press but it would help. I reload 410 with tools I made and I made a set for 20 also.

 

[hairbear1]

There's a bloke here in Australia that manufactures odd and out of date cases for all sorts of guns from the old BP stuff to some of the more obscure stuff today. He makes a lot of stuff for the old big bore stuff like the Nitro's etc and will make cases for you but he's expensive but worth it.
It's Bertram Bullet Co. and this is his email address,

[email protected]

and this is his facebook page,

(11) Bertram Bullet CO. | Facebook

 

[tac foley]

With one company in the USA making ready-to fire Snider cartridges at ca. $250 for ten, it might be a case of hanging it on the wall and biting your knuckles. I'm betting that Mr Bertram will have similarly enthusiastic pricing for his cartridge cases, but OTOH, if you can have a mould made for you by somebody like NOE, or, over here, LEM, and you are cool with Mr Bertram cases, you're good to go.

Good luck with your project and let us know how you progress.

 

[tac foley]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, Mr Kemo, seems you've been looking for a while, right?

On 09/03/2020 at 21:03, Kemo said:
hello i have a 14 bore holland and holland we are trying to find any and all information about reloading this cartridge if anyone has any info please let me know

The only hammerless 14 bore that I`ve seen was a Holland & Holland Royal originally built for a North Yorkshire gunsmith.It had been subsequently sleeved to 16 bore,perhaps as cartridges became difficult to source for 14b.
Edited March 10, 2020 by matone
addition

 

[tac foley]

Also,

 

[Notrighty]

That is the paradox , can a gun you can’t find ammo for still be really cool. I have a solution and this may sound like I’m being over generous but here it goes. I will trade your gun for my 1885 Italian Vetterli which has slightly better ammo availability.

 

[tac foley]

That is the paradox , can a gun you can’t find ammo for still be really cool. I have a solution and this may sound like I’m being over generous but here it goes. I will trade your gun for my 1885 Italian Vetterli which has slightly better ammo availability.

Ah, but your Vetterli was made by a state arsenal, and the Holland & Holland was made, by hand, by craftsmen who make guns for Kings, Queens and emperors!

 

[Notrighty]

No deal huh?

 

[hiwall]

Any machinist can make brass cartridges of the proper size.