Need help to decide on a 1911

Discussion in 'General Handgun Discussion' started by vector16, Feb 5, 2013.

  1. vector16

    vector16 New Member

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    I am in the market for a Kimber 1911. I have been looking at 5 models and have narrowed it down to 2. I have having an issue diciding between the Kimber Custom CDP II and the Kimber Warrior II.

    I am looking at all the features of both and they are equally matched. The CDP is a great looking gun and so is the Warrior. Not that I am going to be selling it anytime soon but I would think that the Warrior would have a higher resale value and far as what I paid for it than the CDP II because of the Rail. I do like the multiple colors on the CDP an do know that colors do not mean function. The all black on the warrior is great looking too and I dio like the grips. I do understand that I can get any grips I please on the aftermarket but it is presented well in the picture.
    The custom Carry with the Crimson Trace laser is nice and all but I have a problem with having to make sure the battery is working if I need it at night. The CDP II and the Warrior both have the night sights.
    Is there any kind of comments or things you guys can share that would help me on this decision?
    I would be looking to get more mags as well What kind of mags do you guys reccomend? I have heard that the included mags that Kimber has are crap.

    I also saw the Raptor by Kimber. Its the only one with a Stainless steel barrel.
     
  2. Jstrong

    Jstrong New Member

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    For kimber money id also look at Dan Wesson's 1911 line-up. More gun for the money. All bar stock steel internals,no MIM,superior parts and hand fitted nicely at the end of production. I believe they would keep their resale value better than kimber as well.

    But if your stuck on kimber than you want what you want.

    As far as mags go though... I can help you there. Look no further than Tripp research gen II cobramags,wilson combat 47d's are a close second but I prefer tripps due too the metal insert where the follower interacts with the slide stop. This keeps it from wearing out in the long term. The Wilson's do not have that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013

  3. otisthecat

    otisthecat New Member

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    Probably depends what you plan on doing with it. Carry, home defense, range, all of the above?
     
  4. vector16

    vector16 New Member

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    I live in CA and there are only 2 san wessons available, the Commander oand the PM7. I do not want anything but a FS gun and I do not want target sites. I am interested in Night sights for a reason.the most inexpensive DW is $1900 and I just don't have that money or to put it another way. I cannot hide that much money from my wife for a gun. I can do $1500 and that is my max
     
  5. Jstrong

    Jstrong New Member

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    If you mean there are only two CA compliant DW models (im not real savvy on the CA complaincy) then yea you may be out of luck. But if you mean your LGS only have the point man and a commander then look online.

    Maybe prices are different out there but around here you can get their Flagship model Valor with the duty coat treatment for 1900$, and I got my Stainless Valor Commander for 1500$, point man goes for even less than that here too.

    But like I said if you got your heart set on a kimber I won't knock ya,they just don't blow my skirt up.
     
  6. Olympus

    Olympus New Member

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    Can't help by recommending a Kimber. Sorry.
     
  7. GeneralPatton

    GeneralPatton New Member

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    Far be it from me to tell you to or not to purchase a weapon. I will however offer you my personal experience with Kimber. I bought one back in 2004 or 2005, which I can't remember. At the time, they had a hugely popular reputation for making some of the best custom 1911's on the market. I think I paid (after tax and whatnot) about $1100 for a TLE/RL II in stainless fullsize. It was quite a beautiful gun no questions asked. I hadn't fired more than 150 rounds through and then had a little run in with the law, and lost my gun rights for 7 years. It was stored thus, and about 6 years later I got an early return of my rights. I spent the next few days sending many, many rounds downrange each and every day. I started having FTE issues and started digging around trying to figure out how on earth such a nice "custom" 1911 could be having issues. The card that came with it said to fire at least 500 rounds for everything to "work itself in" before contacting Kimber. I can see that, so I did. After about 800-900 rounds it was still having FTE issues. I learned that the model I bought had the external extractor that they had had quite a few issues with. They had been replacing the slide with new units having an internal extractor. At the same time that I wanted to do that, I knew that have the external at some point could make it more rare and likely to be worth more later, or even the opposite later. I chose a reliability job to see what would happen. It got better, but it still had something in the neighborhood of 4% FTE odds. I actually carried that, and had it bedside at night. I didn't want to send it off and wait a few weeks to get it back, but I lost my confidence in their products at the same time. Others have had similar problems even with the internal extractors. I sold it for $900 and got another carry gun. But what Kimber really lost was my confidence in their ability to produce a "custom" gun that was reliable. The price point of the Kimber has remained the same, yet there is nothing "custom" about their product anymore. (unless you count a laser etched "custom" as such, which I don't) I don't think 4% is a tolerable rate of failure in my personal defense weapon. I don't think .00004% failure is acceptable honestly. I think a weapon should go bang everytime no questions asked. (I will say that their customer service people were extremely nice on the phone, and willing to take my 8 year old weapon and replace the slide no questions asked, which was a large plus) My Glock model 30 has had one FTE in 12 years, and that was a lead nosed reload I shouldn't have used in the first place. So at the end of the day, would I pay $1000 or more for a weapon that is priced as custom, sold off an assembly line, and has a higher than acceptable chance to FTE? No. My G30 resides bedside, and I carry a Sig P938 everyday. I no longer own anything manufactured by Kimber. But it's your life, your gun, your money. You make the choice. :cool:

    GP
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  8. vector16

    vector16 New Member

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    I was looking at the S&W "e" series 1911 TA today, online. I looked at a couple reviews too. I must say they got better reviews than the Kimber. The Finsh is good, Stainless steel barrel, frame and slide, Night sights. It has and external extractor, I've never had an internal on and can't give an opinion to it. They do not need a 500 round break in, S&Ws have a life time warranty, Kimber has a 1 year limited warranty. it has a rail. It has all the things that I want on a 1911.The bushing looked to be as tight as everything else that is match grade. I heard that it comes with 2- 8 rond mags and 2 recoil springs, a 14 lb and a 10 lb. I like the scales on the slide.

    So in closing, I am not dead set on a Kimber.
    I like the rep of the Kimber, I have had a S&W, not a 1911 but a S&W before and it performed flawlessly. The Kimber will cost about $100 more and only comes with 1 mag that is a POS so I will need to get 2 new mags right off the bat. that makes it $150 more.
    The grip has checkering on the front strap for sure. The lifetime warranty on the gun is a total bonus 100% better than Kimber. The finish is beter than Kimber also. Kimber does have a great rep for accuracy but I think the S&W does also.

    What are your thoughts between the two???
     
  9. Jstrong

    Jstrong New Member

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    S&W all the way,was my first choice for a 1911 before I ponied up the extra cash for a VBOB.

    They do look mighty good,besides from the safety billboards all over them. I think you'll be very satisfied with it.
     
  10. GeneralPatton

    GeneralPatton New Member

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    I've not owned the S&W 1911. I can't tell you anything about it. But I can say I've owned quite a few of their other products and still have a few in the current lineup. I've seen them in the case, handled a couple over the years. I think that the warranty alone expresses to me that they are more confident in their product. Also, the mags, you are right. The Kimber comes with one Kimber 7 round mag. I used a couple of the Wilson Combat 8 round units with mine. They were $32 each. Knowing what I do now, I just wouldn't be willing to pay the premium for something that no longer does what made it a premium product in the beginning. Plus it's really hard to go wrong with S&W :cool:

    GP
     
  11. vector16

    vector16 New Member

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    Thanks for that. That does make sense. Kimber did make a great gun and I am sure they still do. But it seems like they are more in it for the money and the profit now instead of a quality product, doesn't it. If you were to pay between $1K to $4K for a gun i would think that you would want a great gun with great mags, finish, parts, etc intead of the bare minimum to operate the product, don't you think? The S&W does not come with 2 mags, it comes with 3 mags and 2 recoil springs. a light one for compitition and a heavier one for more powerfull loads like the +p rounds.
     
  12. sbrit56880

    sbrit56880 New Member

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    I have a CDP II , During the first 200 rounds it started having Fail to ejects every 4 or 5 shots. I was using Winchester white box ammo. I switched to the cheep Federal ammo and the same result. The ejector was not pulling the shell out of the chamber. I removed the ejector and put a slight more bend in it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  13. KimberFan

    KimberFan New Member

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    +1 for the Raptor. I really like mine.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. sbrit56880

    sbrit56880 New Member

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    Sorry,,,, in addition to the non ejection from the chamber I had an occasional stove pipe.. I switched to Speer lawman ammo and it shot fine, it did well with blazer brass also... I sent it back to the factory and after 5 weeks got it back. It seems ok now.
     
  15. vector16

    vector16 New Member

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    What in the hell are you talking about? The ejector in a hunk of metal on the left side of the frame that when the empty case hits it flys out of the gun. Are you talking about the extractor? cause I don't think that you can bend the ejector without serousli f---ing up your gun.
    Its you magazine anyway, change out the mags with Wilson Combat 47Ds and make sure the barrel does not have any oil build up in the chamber that the case is sticking to. also sounds like the recoil spring may not have the right tension. go get another one of those too for $15. Before you do any work on the internal parts of your gun, always do some test to see if they need adjustments. ther are ways you can test these parts first, look on line fror extrator testing. If you type in Ejector tests that a whole differnt ball game. the mags are always the first thimg taht you replace before you start altering a gun esspecialy a 1911 they can be very picky about what mags they like.
     
  16. vector16

    vector16 New Member

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    I am leaning more towards S&W 1911TA e series now. I like the fact that it comes with 3 mags and has a Lifetime warranty vs kimber that has a 1 year warrany and 1 POS mag that does not work half the time.
     
  17. KimberFan

    KimberFan New Member

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    I understand and of course, to each his own but, I've bought 7 Kimbers since the early 90's, shot them all a lot over the years and not one has ever been back to Yonkers for repair so far. Enjoy the S&W, it's a good one too. ;)
     
  18. vector16

    vector16 New Member

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    I am not positive yet. The S&W does have the features that I want. The Stainless barrel, Night Sights, Checkered FS, good finish that I don't have to be super careful with, good quality mags etc. I have owned S&Ws befoire and put 30K rounds thru in under 2 years and never had ant problems with it. The Raptor have most of the features I want exceppt for the mags and the warranty but the design on the slide is annoying, it looks like a toy pistol. almost. I do npot know what I am going to get and that is why I am here. UI would like someone to tell me a little about the S&W besides they are neat. I know that Kimbers need that break in time and I have nevr had an internal extractor. I heard they are not a +1 gun. Like a S&W is a 8+1 gun. So I can load a mag and drop one in the chamber then load the mag and have 9 rounds or 10+1 or whatever.
     
  19. otisthecat

    otisthecat New Member

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    Unless I'm misunderstanding, that's false, you can certainly carry a Kimber with one in the chamber just like every other 1911. Do Kimber lawyers advise you to do this? Probably not. Doesn't mean you can't/shouldn't.
     
  20. vector16

    vector16 New Member

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    No not carry. If you open the slide and drop a round directly into the chamber by and and then close the slide, load the full mag into the frame. That is what the +1 means so you have a full mag and +1 in the chamber. I have hearad that with and internal extractor, the extractor will not lacth over the end of the casing so in you fire the gun the case will not be ejected from the chamber. Wit an external extractor you can just oush in the end of the extractor and the "hook" will grab onto the casing so when the gun is fired the case will eject as normal.