Need Help Cleaning Barrel !!!

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by MEK37, Sep 17, 2008.

  1. MEK37

    MEK37 New Member

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    I want to know if my method for cleaning my guns is good or bad. I use "Hoppes 9" for the final coat of lube. I used to have Remington oil, I think the "Hoppes 9" is better but I don't know if thats fact. Anyway, when I first start cleaning I will spray down metal parts with WD-40 or "Gun Scrubber"/ break cleaner. Then I will put a light coat of the Hoppes 9 on the metal/ action parts. I think this does a great job, but my main problem was the bore. I start with the cleaning rod and "metal brush" (not sure what it is called but it is a spiral copper type brush that attaches to the rod). Then, after a few passes through the barrel with that (all the way through from breech end to muzzle). I use a patch saturated in oil/cleaner (right now im using "Hoppes 9). Then I take a clean patch and run it through. I repeat the whole process over and over and it seems like it takes a lot of time and many patches; mabey 50. The patch never seems to come out clean. I want to know if properly cleaning a barrel should be this hard and time consuming:confused:
     
  2. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Wow - that is a lot of info run together, without offering too much in the way of specifics.

    First off - Using the Bronze/Copper Bore Brush is a fine idea and works well, but you need the right one for the bore size and because it's made of softer material than your barrel, they do wear down and become smaller. Is your Bore Brush new? Or at least the correct size for the barrel in question?

    Second - How many rounds are you cleaning after? I have NEVER known it to take me 50 patches to get a barrel clean. Ever.

    There isn't anything "wrong" with your method, it will work fine for most, if not all, firearms. However, you have to have the right tools for the job.

    At the end of the day, if you think what you are using isn't working for you, try a different product and see if you, personally, see a difference.

    Butch's / Hoppes / M-Pro 7

    I have used them all, but the one thing they all have in common, that is needed to correctly get the job done, is you. Plain old elbow grease goes a long ways. :D

    JD
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2008

  3. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Hoppes is a CLEANER/ SOLVENT. Not a lubricant. I use it to wet areas that have powder or metal fouling, scrub, dry, and then lube with a lubricant.
     
  4. Mark F

    Mark F New Member Supporter

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    WAYYYY tooo much.... You're not trying to eat out of the barrel, chrissakes!

    1) wire brush several times
    2) nitro solvent w/patch
    3) wire brush again
    4) small amount of lube on a patch
    5) inspect bore and put it away...


    Hell, I haven't used 50 patches 10 years!
     
  5. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    Gun Scrubber good WD-40 BAD leave the WD-40 for screws and rusty bolts.

    This works or gun oil will work as well.

    Sounds OK to me. I don't use a bore brush on my Stainless barrel. but my factory cromoly barrels I brush. I also like to use a jag to clean the barrel out then I use the slot patch holder and a wet patch for a few times. Then I let it sit for a few minutes.

    I go threw at least 50 patches when cleaning the barrel.

    1. wet down with slot holder and wet patch Hoppes #9
    2. Scrub with bronze bore brush
    3. Jag with a dry patch.
    4. Jag with a dry patch.
    5. inspect.
    6. repeat 3 to 5 times.
    7. Slot holder with Hoppes Benchrest copper solvent.
    8. let sit for 15 minutes.
    9. Jag and dry patch.
    10. Jag and dry patch.
    11. Gun slick Foaming bore cleaner allow to set for 30 to 60 minutes.
    12. Jag with hoppes patch.
    13. Jag with dry patch.
    14. repeat 7-13 if needed.
    15. Let foaming bore cleaner set over night.


    I once took a cleaning rod with a bronze brush and hooked it to a drill to really scrub a fouled bore. I would not tell anyone to do this ever. That gun was going to get sold if accuracy did not improve so I tried after soaking the bore in Hoppes #9 over night. The gun did not get sold and is still shooting good today about 8 to 10 years after that cleaning.
     
  6. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    That's NOT a good idea! Spinning the brush at high speed just makes the bristles skip over the lands and leave the crap in the grooves - it also scratches the sh!t out of your bore and will cause the rod to hit the rifling, and after the first couple hundred revolutions the bristles are so compressed you might as well throw the brush away. Also, no solvent should be left in the bore overnight - especially, but mot limited to ammonia-based sovents - they can etch the bore.
     
  7. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    Well it worked for that rifle it was a 94 winny and she went from 10" groups at 100 yards to 3" groups at 100 yards. I made one or two passes then stopped with the drill. Then I just scrubbed nd srubbed and scrubbed then did it some more. Wasn't no bore snake getting that sucker clean.
     
  8. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    You may have scoured the surface of the lands, but when you spin a brush down the bore at a rate which is greater than the rifling twist, it's impossible to clean between the grooves. Your continued manual cleaning and the overnight soaking is what cleaned the grooves - not the drill.
     
  9. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    Must you always try to start a damn fight?

    I used the drill to clean out the big stuff. because the barrel was full of crap.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2008
  10. MEK37

    MEK37 New Member

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    Thanks for all the input. I guess I am just way to anal about cleaning my guns; I enjoy cleaning them almost as much as shooting them:). I do clean them to the point were they look like they can have a meal served on them. I know this is rediculous. Again thanks; I was just going overboard and expecting the barrel to be 100% clean easily, but I know this is not possible unless I want to spend a lot of time and money on cleaning supplies.
     
  11. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    Maybe challenging people on bad information seems like starting a fight to you, but when someone asks for help I try to provide it. If you're gonna mention something that can cause damage, explain why it's not a good idea so that others that don't know won't make a mistake that ruins their rifle. Turning a cleaning rod that's in the bore of a rifle at high rpm's with a drill is a sure way to damage rifling AND the crown, particularly if it's a segmented cleaning rod. I see in your profile that you are a "benchrest" shooter? Tell me, why do benchrest shooters use non-metallic one-piece cleaning rods? And do any of your benchrest pals chuck their cleaning rods in a drill to clean their bores? If that's how you remove crud in the barrel of a rifle, have at it - but other's out here who may be unfamiliar with prooper cleaning techniques might not appreciate ruining their guns accuracy and then finding out that it was due to bad information they read on a firearms forum. I've been cleaning gun barrels for longer than you are old and I've done a lot more reading on the subject - like the original poster, I take great care when cleaning barrels since it is during the cleaning process when most barrels are susceptible to damage.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2008
  12. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    Maybe if you could read you would see what I really said.

    I just gave it as an example of something that I had done. I did not tell the guy to go and do it. In fact of you read above I said not to do it.

    So yes to me you are trying to start a fight.
     
  13. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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  14. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    All I did was say that I have done it and I also said I would not tell anyone to do it. The rifle was going to go in the junk heap so their was no reason to worry about damaging the barrel The darn thing had not been cleaned in aprox 35 years and had not been shot in over 20 years until right before i cleaned it. So I did what I did and it ended up working for the better and ended up shooting better than it did before.

    I am sorry you disagree with what I did. I did it and that is it. I just added it in there as an example of extreme cleaning. It didn't hear the rifle at all so all is a wash.
     
  15. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    I'm NOT trying to argue with you - I am simply stating a fact that you will understand if you try to. There are actually two dimensions inside a rifled barrel. The first is measured across the lands, the second is measured across the grooves. There is a difference of approximately .002-010" of an inch depending on the rifle - this iis equal to the depth of the rifling groove. By spinning a cleaning rod with a brass-bristled brush at 500 rpms and forcing it down the barrel, instead of letting the brush turn the rod, it is physically impossible for the bristles to clean out the grooves. Why you might ask? Because the bristles CANNOT spring back fast enough to even make contact with the grooved portion of the barrel. It's impossible. The bristles being made of soft brass are in effect skipping over the grooves and only cleaning the surface of the lands. In fact, the brass bristles will deform to the smaller bore dimension defined by the land-to-land distance, not the larger groove-to-groove distance, and when you withdraw the brush, it will be permanently deformed and undersized, and useless as far as ever being capable of cleaning the grooves. What CAN happen is that the aluminum rod (which is in two or three sections and not meant to be rotated at high speed, except by the friction of the brush being pushed down the rifling) vibrates so violently that it contacts the lands scraping off microscopic particles of aluminum to become lodged in the grooves - this vibration can also destroy the crowned portion of the barrel where the rifling ends, and where the rapidly spinning, and out of balance, rod WILL contact the crown. Because of these problems with aluminum, sectioned rods, many shooters opt for one-piece non-metallic cleaning rods and many shooters use a muzzle guard to protect the crown from damage, particularly for lever-actions and semi-auto's that cannot be cleaned from the breech. Some companies even offer breech guides to prevent the cleaning rod from contacting the throat of the chamber. Most barrel damage is achieved from improper cleaning techniques, and the fact that aluminum and brass are softer than steel does not prevent damage, since particles of either will destroy a bore when a bullet forces these particles into the steel.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2008
  16. janikphoto

    janikphoto New Member

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    OK, fight's over. You are BOTH winners...

    I take a long time cleaning my guns as well. It is part of the fun, in a way. I never use hoppes to lube, I use it to clean. I use remoil or a brownells red oil (forget its actual name) to lube/protect.
     
  17. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    I used to use oil but moved away from it when I found Wilson Combat moly greese.

    I hate hate cleaning guns. I don't clean mine unless they show signs of degrading accuracy. When I do though I take house to clean one rifle. Pistols are a bit easier and take about 30 to 45 minutes.