Need help and/or new ideas

Discussion in 'DIY Projects' started by Garrett123, Mar 20, 2019.

  1. Garrett123

    Garrett123 New Member

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    Hello every one, I had the idea to do the ultimate custom build; build a bolt action .22 lr from scratch. It does sound far fetched but I'm going to try it. Just one problem; ideas, and planning. while doing research I came across how to build a mauser 98 receiver, after I read it I though "how am I going to change one caliber to another with out a conversion kit and all by hand?" My original design was a Mauser 98 shape but I have a feeling that I may need to rethink my design. Thoughts?
     
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  2. RJF22553

    RJF22553 Well-Known Member

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    Garrett, first of all, welcome to the forum from Central Virginia.

    Challenges are beyond the engineering aspects: you will have made a firearm...
     
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  3. Garrett123

    Garrett123 New Member

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    I understand that I will be making a firearm, but it is preferred that it is in a smaller caliber like .22 lr or a .22 variant specifically. My original plan was to make a .22 hornet but after hours of research came up empty. Since I am making it for a gift, for my brother and larger calibers are harder for him to handle since he is of smaller stature and he doesn't hunt anyway, he just wants a target rifle that he can have some fun with, but I would like to make it for him in a bolt action configuration of some sort, preferably the hornet.
     
  4. RJF22553

    RJF22553 Well-Known Member

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    Garrett, what I meant is there are likely legal challenges at state and federal levels. I'm not a lawyer and didn't spend last night in a Holiday Inn Express, and I don't build firearms.

    I will defer to members far more knowledgeable about the legalities. Finishing off an 80% lower on an AR makes it a firearm requiring, IIRC, engraving a S/N on it. Depending on where you live, you may also need to register it.

    As it would be a firearm, transferring it to your brother might also entail other legal challenges - particularly if your brother lives in another state. Background checks, firearm transfer forms, etc.

    This all sorta sucks and would have been no problem 51 years ago.

    This site gives a hint of things. While I never intend to build my own firearm, your post caused me to wonder about my answer. While not complete, it is a starting point...
    https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/homemade-guns-are-they-legal-must-they-be-registered.

    Good luck!
     
  5. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member Admin Moderator Lifetime Supporter

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    Hi Garrett! First- the legalities- with the understanding that I AM NOT A LAWYER-
    Under US Federal law, yes, you can make a firearm. If you want to, you can take a block of steel and a file, and whittle yourself a .45. EXCEPTION- you cannot make a National Firearms Act weapon (machine gun, short barreled shotgun, etc) without doing the NFA paperwork and taxes FIRST. If you make a firearm, it does not have to have a serial number. STATE LAWS WILL VARY- especially if you are in CA, NJ or NY. IF your brother is a resident of a state other than yours, by Federal law it must be sent to a licensed dealer in his home state to transfer the gun to him.

    As far as "Making a gun"- how much do you want to make, vs how much do you want to buy? How skilled are you with machine tools? By that I do NOT mean power tools. I mean lathes, milling machines, etc. Do you have access to those tools? We ARE talking several thousand bucks and machines that are heavier than what you can haul in a light pickup. Buy a rifled barrel and cut the chamber? .22 Hornet barrels have a rate of twist of 1 in 16 or 1 in 14. But a .223 needs a completely different rate of twist.

    Now, I have not had to opportunity to know and love you for the truly wonderful person you are, so I will ask- what do you know about gunsmithing? Do you know what leade is? Headspacing? What is a go/ no go/ field gauge?

    If you are the average shooter, that does not already have a tool & die maker's shop in the garage, how about finding a barreled action that you like, and fitting a custom stock to it? Still a lot of room for individuality, lesser risk of a catastrophic failure of a bolt.

    .22 Hornet is a neat little round- very accurate, but sure as hell ain't the cheapest to shoot (or easiest to find ammo for) Just a thought- Savage 93 is a reasonably priced bolt action rifle- some are heavy barreled, and some are .17 HMR. You can get ammo at Wall World for about $14/ 50 rounds. Maybe find one and either create a custom stock, or find one with a nifty stock and do your own decoration/ paint job/ family photos laser engraved on stock, etc?

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. SGWGunsmith

    SGWGunsmith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    ^^^^^^A lot of really good info above.
    For your first foray into firearms work, have you considered finding an older .22 rifle and then restoring it for your brother?
    There are some really nice pre-owned rifles that can be brought back to very usable condition without a lot of money involved, but more hands-on sorta stuff, like complete clean-up and refinishing.
    Now that you've wisely found your way to this site, you will find a lot of folks that will provide you any input you need to help with your project.
     
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  7. jigs-n-fixture

    jigs-n-fixture Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I’ll second the recommendation of rebuilding an existing rifle or two, first. It will let you practice a lot of the skills you will need.

    Also, you need to rethink the use of a Mauser 98 as a starting point. The 98 is a fine rifle. but it is extreme overkill for a 22-LR or even a 22WMR.
     
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  8. SGWGunsmith

    SGWGunsmith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Oh man, I just gotta agree with my buddy "jigs". If you want to emulate a Mauser 98 action, be prepared to do some very serious machine time.
    If I were to EVER, try machining a .22 rimfire rifle, I'd definitely consider a round receiver. So much easier to insert a barrel shank.
     
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  9. Garrett123

    Garrett123 New Member

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    I thank everyone for the wonderful and helpful info. C3shooter I know a lot about gunsmithing and what it involves, we as gunsmiths (depending on the work we do) have to be jack of all trades and know how to use tools of the trade, like you said heavy machinery such as lathes and milling machines, and much more (welding machines, arbor presses). As far as how skilled I am with a milling machine and lathe, I would honestly rate myself a 7 or an 8 out of 10. I am currently looking at a few milling machines right now (mill/drill), as far as the barrel, I would buy it. I do know what leade is (its a section of chamber where the rifling begins), the headspace is distance from the bolt of a firearm to the rounds shoulder. no go and go gauges are to check headspace. as far as how much i would like to make, I'm not to sure, I'm fighting with myself on what I should do now that I read this. Thanks for the great advice, I really appreciate it
     
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  10. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member Admin Moderator Lifetime Supporter

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    Garrett- appreciate your understanding. Our members here run the entire range from long term manufacturing gunsmiths, to young folks that have decided that because they can draw a picture of a gun, that qualifies them to design one.

    .22 Hornet is an interesting round (started using bullets from the .22 Velo dog cartridge, BTW) but it is a very old design that has been tweaked several times (K Hornet, Hornet Improved, etc etc). There are a lot of good rounds you can choose from- the 22 Johnson Spitfire has always intrigued me, but again you are looking at a wildcat, and a rimless one.

    Do you have your heart set on a rifle? If you have a virgin receiver, you could do a target pistol (T/C contender style) or maybe do a rifle- falling block style.
     
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  11. Garrett123

    Garrett123 New Member

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    I really don't have my heart set on a rifle, I was wanting to do a bolt action in a smaller caliber (.22, 17 hmr, 22 hornet). I'm sort of looking in the direction of .22 LR or .17 hmr, because I need something that my brother can hunt squirrels and small game with, but at the same time have the accuracy to be a small caliber target rifle. I know 17 hmr for squirrels is over kill, but its a great target round, and I know .22 LR is great for squirrels but can only shoot so far before it loses its accuracy.
     
  12. Garrett123

    Garrett123 New Member

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    So, I had a new idea but, the possibilities of it seem kind of stretched because, I would be converting a semi auto to a manual straight pull, and I've done research and it seems like there isnt any parts that are availiable. My idea was to build a ruger 10/22 then convert the action to a straight pull, but I'm not sure how this is possible, or if it is at all.
     
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  13. freefall

    freefall Well-Known Member

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    Why would you want to?
    Look at biathalon rifles, if that's what you want.
     
  14. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member Admin Moderator Lifetime Supporter

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    Your first problem- most 2 semi autos are BLOWBACK- the cartridge exerts a force on the bolt, blowing it back. You have to have something that locks the bolt in place. And the 10/22 does not have that. Afraid you would be starting from the wrong starting point. Sorta like making a butter knife out of butter.
     
  15. jdsingleshot

    jdsingleshot Active Member

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    Just for the record, the .22 LR doesn't so much loose accuracy at long range as much as it just looses altitude fast. I guess the result is the same, in that it's harder to hit the mark at long distance.
     
  16. crash11049

    crash11049 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Garret there has been a lot of great advice given in all of the posts above.
    Opinions will vary on what would be the best approach to meet your goal.
    This is one more for you to consider.
    a Stevens falling block is a very simple design, that when rebarreled give great
    accuracy.
    They are a great low priced starting point, for a good looking and shooting
    project.
    They have a classic look that just begs to be played with and used.
    I live in a not so free state, that does not allow the manufacturing of new guns.
    But I can refurbish a receiver that was previously manufactured into a functioning gun.
    The last thing you want to do , is run afoul of the law
    Early Stevens falling blocks have the look I like, lever action single shots so I tend to concentrate on them.
    The point is that there are a lot of ways to do what you want, without reinventing the wheel.
    Good luck with whatever you do, just stay within your state guidelines.
    GMR
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
  17. SGWGunsmith

    SGWGunsmith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It's not an impossible conversion, but it would require a bit of modification as to how the Ruger 10/22 operates as purchased. I haven't read about any errant suggestions that are worthwhile, from the more seasoned shooting veterans offering GOOD advice, other than some, from, amatuer shooters, suggesting solutions beyond the scope of what you initially asked for.
    The suggestion to purchase a Biathlon rifle is, WOW, way over the top, and not really necessary, unless you plan to get involved with the Olympics, buy some ski's and a bunch of cold weather shooting clothing. :rolleyes:
    You've asked a very simple, pointed, question, and from what I've read, you have received some very sensible answers from several shooters who have much more knowledge than some.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
  18. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Well-Known Member

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    images.jpeg-2.jpg Your asking brought to mind those old Husqvarna single shot rifles in
    Various calibers.
    25-20WCF
    model 3
    32-20WCF model 4
    These had a single lug like a Kraig rifle. images.jpeg-1.jpg Husqvarna35002.jpg Husqvarna35009.jpg images.jpeg.jpg
    30-30WCF
    45-70Govt
    model 45
    These might be single locking lug rifles as well.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
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  19. SGWGunsmith

    SGWGunsmith Well-Known Member Supporter

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  20. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Well-Known Member

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    There are a few neat designs out there.
    The Savage/Stevens 73Y is a single shot bolt action that the barrel removes with a single screw.
    You can swap from .22 mag to the 17Hmr pretty easy.
    The other neat single shot was the Ithica 49 single shot.
    It had a tipping block close to a baby martini.
    Then you have the old stevens favorite take down type the barrel is removed with a thumb screw.
    The Key Stone Arms Crickett rifles are another neat split bridge single shot bolt action that locks on the bolt handle in the action.
    I like the manual cocking feature of them sorts like the Marlin Glenfield model 10.


    One action Id love to recreate would be a Ballard falling block.
    The breech block is in 2 halves!
    Then the Remington Model 6 Boys rifle is a neat takedown that is so simple its crazy.
    images.jpeg-17.jpg download.jpeg-1.jpg images.jpeg-16.jpg download.png images.jpeg-18.jpg

    Then the Qackenbush rifle has a neat pivot block.


    And last the H&R huntsman Auto Eject single shot.


    I like the idea of the Savage Stevens 120C bolt action shotgun.
    The bolt handle locks the bolt into the receiver.
    Once locked closed it can fire.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
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