Need Advice!

4333 Views 39 Replies 9 Participants Last post by JPBeck, Sep 14, 2008

user4

Discussion Starter · Sep 2, 2008 (Edited)

2

You guys have saved me from many a mistake thus far and here I am with another dilemma.

I am looking for a long range shooter. There are three rifles which I can buy. All for exactly the same price (trading a SIG P220)

The first is a Browning BAR in .270 Leupold 3X9. With no picture til later.

A Remington 710 in .270

and a Yugo SKS

Any thoughts?

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BigO01

· #2 · Sep 2, 2008

If you mean by long range simply beyond handgun distances the SKS should get you to around 300 yards .

If you mean long range for your average deer/elk/bear hunter 300-500 yards the Bar is the hands down choice .

If you mean ultra long range shooting for anything neither one is suitable .

For those 600+ yard shots first off you will need to find somewhere to practice them and then get into the needed gun scope combination for which there are several choices all in high dollar rigs that the cost of the scopes alone will probably be more than the two guns you're asking about .

There are a few discussions on the subject which quite frankly I find as impractical to the average person as even the opportunities are very limited for such shooting and personally feel if you're taking such shots at game on a regular basis you should be improving your hunting skills and get at least within 300 yards of your intended quarry .

Comparing the average deer hunter in the woods to a long range military marksman is like trying to compare your 8 YO in little league to Barry Bonds it's nothing but a joke .

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Dillinger

· #3 · Sep 2, 2008

So, let me get this straight. I have to choose between the SKS, the BAR, AND the Remy 710? Or just the SKS and the Remy pictured?

Define long range for you. Long range is subjective.

I guess, what is your intent for the weapon in question?

JD

user4

Discussion Starter · #4 · Sep 2, 2008 (Edited)

I want to put together a good sniper's rig. Want to hit bad guys from beyond 500 meters. No one mentioned the browning. Weapon will not likely be used for hunting. I just want something for SHTF situation...Armageddon stuff.

robocop10mm

· #5 · Sep 2, 2008

Let me get this straight, you are considering trading a P-220 for a Rem 710 or Yugo SKS? Are you as goofy as your avatar? Unless the P-220 is a POS, that would be a BAD deal (for you) IMHO. Someone would be willing to trade a BAR w/Leopold glass for a P-220? I'm assuming they want some cash also.

Of the three, the BAR is clearly the best bet (given that each is in comparable condition).

Why would you trade off a perfectly good P-220. It is the best pistol ever made by Sig (except the P-210)

Dillinger

· #6 · Sep 2, 2008

While I don't feel as strongly as Robo about the trade, I have to side with him.

The Sig P-220 is a very nice gun. Why get rid of it for an inferior bolt/semi weapon?

None of those weapons would make a "good sniper rig" in my opinion. Could I a couple of them work? Sure. Would it shoot as well as a factory or custom rig, probably not.

Of the three, and speaking merely from a platform to improve standpoint. I would rate them like this, depending on condition of all the firearms of course.

BAR
Remy
SKS

JD

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JPBeck

· #7 · Sep 2, 2008 (Edited)

I want to put together a good sniper's rig. Want to hit bad guys from beyond 500 meters. No one mentioned the browning. Weapon will not likely be used for hunting. I just want something for SHTF situation...Armageddon stuff.

LOL-- 550 yards with those choices. Your kidding right? It's hard to take you seriously when you talk about talking a man's life at 547 yards with a .270 (}I don't care if it's a browning, Remington, Salvage-- I mean Savage, or any other rifle of that caliber). Makes me think you have no idea what your talking about, let alone have the ability to deliver a shot at those ranges with any accuracy. Sorry if that offends you-- but I find the word "sniper rifle" and .270 together offensive.

That is not a flame-- please don't take it as one.

So that only leaves the SKS-- although after you get behind it and seriously start reaching out past 100 yards-- you'll find that it is inadequate for "hitting bad guys out to 500 meters".

Please tone it down a notch-- if a liberal see's this post-- it'll give more more reason for them to look at hunting rifles as "sniper rifles".

Happy Zombie hunting.

RL357Mag

· #8 · Sep 2, 2008

+1 - If you must get one of them, the BAR wins hands down! Most SKS's are innacurate to begin with, adding a sleletonized plastic stock and a receiver-cover mounted scope only worsens it, and the Rem. 710 is a poor man's Mod.700 - not known for stellar accuracy, and it sells new for under $300.

user4

Discussion Starter · #9 · Sep 2, 2008

This is why I come to you guys. I know next to nothing about long arms (clearly) I swear I'm not insane. I wouldn't make a trade without the approving nods of you fine gentlemen.

Is the BAR a GOOD trade or just the best trade?

Clearly the other two (both from the same guy) are off the table.

I appreciate the input (jabs at my sanity aside)

user4

Discussion Starter · #10 · Sep 2, 2008

JPBeck said:
LOL-- 550 yards with those choices. Your kidding right? It's hard to take you seriously when you talk about talking a man's life at 547 yards with a .270 (}I don't care if it's a browning, Remington, Salvage-- I mean Savage, or any other rifle of that caliber). Makes me think you have no idea what your talking about, let alone have the ability to deliver a shot at those ranges with any accuracy. Sorry if that offends you-- but I find the word "sniper rifle" and .270 together offensive.

That is not a flame-- please don't take it as one.

So that only leaves the SKS-- although after you get behind it and seriously start reaching out past 100 yards-- you'll find that it is inadequate for "hitting bad guys out to 500 meters".

Please tone it down a notch-- if a liberal see's this post-- it'll give more more reason for them to look at hunting rifles as "sniper rifles".

Happy Zombie hunting.

I dont take any offense. I DON'T know about these weapons which is why I am asking. I don't want to get screwed. I thought I was clear that I wasn't assuming any knowledge.

I know my handguns well, but I get into these long arms and I am completely lost.

cpttango30

· #11 · Sep 2, 2008

I am a died in the wool remmy man but man did someone slap you with a stupid stick? That 710 and that SKS are junk.

That browning would get you out there. But a good bolt gun would be your best bet. If you are wanting to take out people size targets at 500+ yards. You better start looking for something with some downrange power. The Military uses the 308 in a Remmy 700 for their 1000 and under sniping.

You are going to need $1000 just for glass on a very good rifle. I would get a Surgon action Kreiger Barrel and a McMillian A-5 stock. The Surgon action is a Remington take off. Kreiger makes the best single point cut rifling barrels out there and McMillian make the best synthetic stock on the market. I would then top it with a Nightforce 12-42x56mm scope in Badger ord rings and mounts. Chambered in 308 win. or a 300 winmag will get you moving in that direction.

You do not want to build a sniper rifle you want to build a long range precision rifle.

Dillinger

· #12 · Sep 2, 2008

Ineffable, kudos at your good sense of humor. I don't think JP meant anything serious by it - but the thread direction has taken a bit of a turn that isn't normal.... LOL

If you want to get a weapon platform, capable of the longer range, Zombie stopping type of hits you seem to be describing, none of these is a great choice for you.

Could they be made to work? Yes. Are they ideal? No.

550 yards is a long ways brother. 5 football fields if you think about it, just about endzone out of bounds to endzone out of bounds.

Should SHTF, do you have 500 plus yards of open field within your free fire zone around your place? If you do, then I suppose it's a valid concern.

If you walked into the shop with the same criteria, none of the weapons listed would be the direction we would point you towards. For what it's worth...

JD

PS - Every house should have a good quality boltgun in it. They are just so useful for all sorts of things.

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dunerunner

· #13 · Sep 2, 2008

There is more to shooting long range than looking through the scope a pulling the trigger!! If the bad guys can't be gotten to by stealth, you really don't want to try to Quigley them from 500+ yards. They'll just spin that tank barrel around and fire at your muzzle flash. It would take you years to develop the stamina and shooting confidence to accurately hit anything beyond 250 yards repeatedly. Wait for them to get closer!! Keep the pistol!!

user4

Discussion Starter · #14 · Sep 2, 2008

Dillinger said:
550 yards is a long ways brother. 5 football fields if you think about it, just about endzone out of bounds to endzone out of bounds.

Should SHTF, do you have 500 plus yards of open field within your free fire zone around your place? If you do, then I suppose it's a valid concern.

Ha. I live in north Texas and I can see across the state. I wouldn't even ask if I were still in the NW.

Again, it seems like all choices are not good ones. I appreciate knowing that. I detest buyer's remorse

Dillinger

· #15 · Sep 2, 2008

Ineffable said:
Ha. I live in north Texas and I can see across the state.

You live in North Texas and don't own a long gun?!?! I thought they issued you those when you were either 1) Born there or 2) Moved in.

You aren't a Kommunist are you?!

LOL

For North Texas Zombie Work - You need a .308 or larger weapon, preferably a bolt gun, with nice optics and an internal box mag for follow up shots.

JD

user4

Discussion Starter · #16 · Sep 2, 2008

dunerunner said:
There is more to shooting long range than looking through the scope a pulling the trigger!! If the bad guys can't be gotten to by stealth, you really don't want to try to Quigley them from 500+ yards. They'll just spin that tank barrel around and fire at your muzzle flash. It would take you years to develop the stamina and shooting confidence to accurately hit anything beyond 250 yards repeatedly. Wait for them to get closer!! Keep the pistol!!

I said I didn't much about long guns, I didn't say I didn't know how to use them. (sorta what Quigley said...) I know how to work a cell phone, but I couldn't tell you how to fix one when it breaks.

Firing the weapon isn't an issue. Buying one that doesn't suck IS.

user4

Discussion Starter · #17 · Sep 2, 2008

Dillinger said:
You live in North Texas and don't own a long gun?!?! I thought they issued you those when you were either 1) Born there or 2) Moved in.

You aren't a Kommunist are you?! LOL

For North Texas Zombie Work - You need a .308 or larger weapon, preferably a bolt gun, with nice optics and an internal box mag for follow up shots.

JD

Gov Rick Perry is a left leaning republican, so I didn't get my gun. I'm trying to do it all on my own now

Thanks! That is the answer I need.

JPBeck

· #18 · Sep 2, 2008

2

cpttango30 said:
You are going to need $1000 just for glass on a very good rifle. I would get a Surgon action Kreiger Barrel and a McMillian A-5 stock. The Surgon action is a Remington take off. Kreiger makes the best single point cut rifling barrels out there and McMillian make the best synthetic stock on the market. I would then top it with a Nightforce 12-42x56mm scope in Badger ord rings and mounts. Chambered in 308 win. or a 300 winmag will get you moving in that direction.

You do not want to build a sniper rifle you want to build a long range precision rifle.

Plus one on everything except the Nightforce-- barf-- sorry bad experience. IOR would be a better choice for less money (IMHO of course).

Or you can have Terry Cross build you two like mine...

Although my SB scope was a tad more than 2K.

I've got a A5 stock on order for this rifle:

been on order for 5 months now

And a BIG +1 on building a long range precision rifle---- NOT a SNIPER rifle.

Ineffable-- I was just poking at you-- I'm sorry if I offended you-- it was not my intention. I just feel strongly against the whole hunting bad guys at 500 yards coming from a non LEO (which they wouldn't normally try anyways) or military personnel.

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RL357Mag

· #19 · Sep 2, 2008 (Edited)

Ineffable - the BAR is worth more than the other rifles, is more accurate, and the .270 cal. offers more possibilities. The condition of the gun matters. If it was obvioously abused (light rust, stock dents, worn rifling) that changes things. Some older BAR's are worth a LOT of money - if they were made in Belgium. All new Brownings (since the mid-late 90's I believe) are made in Japan, and that's ok, just not worth as much. Like JD said though, for a long-range platform to be used for SHTF or Varmint/hunting, you need something different than the three you mentioned. Nothiing beats a good bolt action, of which the Rem 710 is NOT. In stock configuration I would reccomend either a Winchestewr Mod. 70 in .30-06, .308, or .300 WIn Mag, or a Remington 700 BDL in the same calibers. Or you can get an old Mauser action and work up your own rifle if you know a gun smith. Or you can do what I did and drop $850 on an AR-10 and save some more for a good scope.

Dillinger

· #20 · Sep 2, 2008

Ineffable said:
Gov Rick Perry is a left leaning republican, so I didn't get my gun. I'm trying to do it all on my own now

Thanks! That is the answer I need.

If you want, when you get serious, send me a PM with your wants and wishes, along with your budget and I will see if I can't get you pointed in the right direction.

JD

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