Neck Separation???

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by gwtx, Sep 20, 2013.

  1. gwtx

    gwtx New Member

    28
    0
    0
    I looked through about 8 or 10 cases that I had shot in my 22-250 a few days ago, and found one the cases neck had separated. These were mixed brass that had been reloaded 2 or 3 times. The one that separated was remington. I am also noticing my case necks are "blackened" more than normal. The rifle is a Stevens 200 with less than 250 rounds thru it. Loading the standard H380 38.0gr load, pushing a 55gr sierra hpbt seated to book specs. Nothing out of the ordinary. I've only been reloading a few years, and haven't seen this anywhere before. Bad brass ?, bad chamber throat or ??
    Help appreciated, Gary
     

    Attached Files:

  2. JonM

    JonM Moderator

    20,110
    19
    38
    the blackened necks are a sure sign of work hardening and time to anneal the brass before case neck cracks or seperation occurs.

    remington brass is notoriously hard and should be annealed from the start. remington doesnt anneal their brass when producing new cases.
     

  3. mseric

    mseric New Member

    4,171
    0
    0
    You "blackened" necks are most likely caused by your weak load. Yes, I know Sierra lists 38gr as Max, Hodgdon list it as a "Start" charge, as does Speer.

    You separated neck acts more like a piece of defective brass than an annealing problem. All factory brass is annealed during the manufacturing process, some as many as 6 times during different stages, even Remington.

    Work hardened brass will usually show signs at the bench when sizing and seating. When work hardened brass does fail it is usually a vertical "split", not a horizontal separation.

    Also 380 is notorious for poor ignition with standard primers, it is one of the "ball" powders that gets the Mag Primer nod for complete burn.

    It is also extremely temp sensitive, what was the temp when you fired these?
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2013
  4. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

    5,421
    720
    113
    I opened this thread thinking it was about Saddam Hussein.
     
  5. mountainman13

    mountainman13 New Member

    11,488
    0
    0
    Dead on. Over worked brass.
     
  6. Shade

    Shade New Member

    1,720
    0
    0
    My assessment is overworked brass, or defective brass. Also the severe
    bottle neck on the brass like my 7mm Rem Mag are more susceptible to
    failure because by the design of the case it gets worked more.
     
  7. gwtx

    gwtx New Member

    28
    0
    0
    Thanks to all responders.
    I kinda suspected the weak load, cause the necks were getting blackened from the first firing. This was new unprimed brass.
    The load shoots very good from the Stevens,,but, so does everything I've put through it. I loaded up to 40.0gr in steps with no improvement in groups, so I stayed with Mr. H's favorite load. I'll clean up the necks, and go back to a little higher pressure load to see if that helps reduce or eliminate the black necks. Any suggestions for a better brand of brass? The remmy stuff sure looks thin. I haven't weighed it, but think I will. I have some hornady ammo I bought when I bought the rifle. I shot about 9 rounds of it, and saved the rest. I'll weigh and compare. I'm not set up for annealing, havn't had the need to, but as expensive and hard to find as brass is, I guess I need to now. Thanks again, I appreciate the sharing of knowledge here on the site. Gary
     
  8. mseric

    mseric New Member

    4,171
    0
    0
    I have less issues with Rem brass than I do with Win brass if that means anything.

    If you want the best and feel like spending some $$ look into Lapua brass, it's the best but is isn't cheap. For your 22-250 you are looking at about a buck a piece.

    Norma is also very good, again a little under a buck a piece.

    Annealing is a very inexpensive process. All it takes is a BernzOmatic torch and a pan of water.
     
  9. Shade

    Shade New Member

    1,720
    0
    0
    Neck sizing the brass will minimize work hardening but if you shoot out of
    more than one gun then you will have to segregate the brass, if you neck size.

    I neck size for all of my bolt guns, mainly for accuracy, my semi's get full
    length sizing, even though I have tested neck sized ammo with no issues,
    I did not see as much improve with accuracy as with the bolt guns.

    Olin is the brass supplier to all the domestic plants, Olin supplies the brass
    in sheet/strip or cup form the individual plants form the case. But they all
    manufacture to SAAMI specifications; I think that the brand differences
    between plant are sometimes over-stated, I am not saying they don't exist,
    just over-stated.

    Foreign brass is a different story.
     
  10. kaido

    kaido New Member

    1,743
    0
    0
    So.....just to make sure I read this right, a weak load with cause the neck to burn/blacken? I always thought it was higher loads or improper sizing that did this?
     
  11. mseric

    mseric New Member

    4,171
    0
    0
    His neck is not "Burned", it is as you say, blackened. It is often times caused by poor powder ignition and insufficient pressure for the brass to seal the chamber. Hard to ignite ball/spherical powders have this trait more so than extruded.

    Improper sizing? Not sure what you mean by this, but a sized case either properly sized or improperly sized will expand to fit the chamber as soon as the primer ignites the powder. The case will fill the chamber long before the bullet starts to move and pressures peak. Unless the load is weak.
     
  12. gwtx

    gwtx New Member

    28
    0
    0
    WHOOPS, I didn't see page two. Thanks mseric for the input

    I don't know all the scientific terms and theories, but as I understand, the "weak" load doesn't generate enough pressure to properly "seal" the case against the walls of the chamber. That's just my interpretation of what I have read on the subject. I'm sure there are many folks on this site that can explain it to you AND ME, hopefully some will share their knowledge as they have many times in the past.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2013
  13. gwtx

    gwtx New Member

    28
    0
    0
    I only have one 22-250, and so I neck size, and use the lee factory crimp die. I am new to the 22-250. I have a found few rounds that were a little hard to close the bolt on after neck sizing. I ran the FL die on them, and they were ok. A couple of them that weren't too tight, I went ahead and shot. They impacted a little high and right just like a hotter load would. These were all processed the same, so I don't know why a few of them were tighter. They were also harder to eject, but not so much I had to take a hammer to the bolt :) Thanks for the reply. Gary
     
  14. gwtx

    gwtx New Member

    28
    0
    0
     
  15. kaido

    kaido New Member

    1,743
    0
    0


    Well then, I now know this. A lot of my rounds seem to have this happen to them. I've loaded them a little under max loads because that's where my best groups are at.
     
  16. gwtx

    gwtx New Member

    28
    0
    0
    I normally do the same, usually about a grain below max is where I wind up with the best groups. I started off with this load(38gr H380) because I read numerous posts on different forums about this being Mr. Hogdon's(sp)
    favorite and most accurate load. It is accurate. A little dirty, and temp sensitive, as mseric said. Do you have a favorite load for 22-250 with 55gr pills? Thanks, Gary
     
  17. kaido

    kaido New Member

    1,743
    0
    0

    I don't own a .22-250 yet, I'm actually looking to sell or trade a 17HMR towards one right now. I only reload for my .243 and when I get the dies, I'll also be loading for my 30-06.
     
  18. mseric

    mseric New Member

    4,171
    0
    0
    No, depending on the case and the cartridge, 3-5 firings.
     
  19. gwtx

    gwtx New Member

    28
    0
    0
    I loaded 5 rds with 36.0gr varget under 55gr sierra hpbt's(same bullet as I'm loading with h380). The first one was a little higher than the H380 loads, but the next four impacted in the same area as the H380 loads, AND they were less than an inch apart. I didn't measure. The necks were not blackened as much as the H380 loads, but were still smoked a little. Looking back through some more of the spent cases, I found a few more that looked like they almost cracked. These(remington cases) all came from a batch of 100 that I bought from midwayusa. I guess I'll anneal all the ones I have left, and see if that helps. AND switch to the varget load. I've only shot 5 rds , but they grouped better than the H380 loads, and varget is not as temp sensitive, and I load it for several other rifles. Looking for advice on "Anealing". Thanks for the help. Gary