National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2012

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by Mason609, Mar 14, 2012.

  1. Mason609

    Mason609 Active Member

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  2. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I doubt it.
     

  3. 2ndAmendmentFreedom

    2ndAmendmentFreedom New Member

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    That's a great bill. If driver's licenses are recognized in all 50 states, CCW should too.
     
  4. Steenkamp

    Steenkamp New Member

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    If this passed it would be awesome... but, with the way things are going im not going to hold my breath.
     
  5. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Warning:

    Just remember, it is the Federal government taking one more bite out of the State's rights. What the Federal government gives they Federal government can take away. It may be good in the short term for gun rights, but terrible in the long run.

    I would rather my state have control over my rights. Remember that the states with the largest populations, and the most power in Washington, are also the States that have some of the most restrictive gun laws.

    If you live in North Dakota, or Florida, do you want Californians or New Yorkers deciding your carry rights? Today, if you feel you can't live with your gun laws, you can move to another state. If there is National control, you would have to move to another country.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2012
  6. Mason609

    Mason609 Active Member

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    Umm... Chainfire, You're kinda wrong here.

    The ONLY thing this Bill does is to allow those that are permitted to carry concealed in their home state to carry concealed in other states that allow concelaed carry. Is does not take away from individual rights, in fact, it's just the opposite, it would GIVE more freedom.

    There is no "National Control". Have you even read EITHER of these bills?
     
  7. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    No, Chainfire's right.

    What it does is step on state laws, effectively nullifying the will of the people of a state. New York has reciprocity with no other state, but this federal law would trump the state law.

    Don't get me wrong, there should be 100% reciprocity everywhere, but it should be done at the state level, not as a federal mandate. In point of fact, no permit should be required anywhere to acquire or carry firearms, but that's another issue.
     
  8. bkace4

    bkace4 New Member

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    I'd love to see this pass, especially since the neighboring state that I travel to frequently does not have reciprocity. I'm not going to hold my breath on this one though. Thanks for posting the link.
     
  9. Mason609

    Mason609 Active Member

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    BKT...

    Federal laws have always taken trumped State laws. That's why there are many Federal laws that seem too lenient (take, for instance, the age of consent...federal age is much lower than any state age, which allows the states to raise the age where they see fit; also take the drinking age, states could raise it, but they can't lower it... are those examples trampling state's right or the will of the people??). These State "laws" that are being trumped are not the "will of the people", but the will of the ruling bodies. I know, I live in one of those State's that don't honor carry permits from other states. And that is not due to what the people want, it's because of what our Governor and AG want.

    If you want to see the will of the people, have the issue put to a national vote. Otherwise, you really can't say "the will of the people" when our elected officials don't truly represent our will.

    As far as your statement about no permit to own/carry, that's something I agree/disagree with.
     
  10. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Chainfire is right on. This feel good legislation ignores states rights. Furthermore, you would not be able to carry in Illinois, New Jersey or New York City. Thankfully this thing will never become law.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2012
  11. vincent

    vincent New Member

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    Ive been keeping an eye on this bill for a while now and to me it just seems like a huge waste of time and energy. States have very good reasons not to share reciprocity with other states, mainly differing training requirements, who is the govt to step in and say different?

    For me personally, it's a moot point...my state already shares reciprocity with any and all other states I'd want or need to set foot in. I've NO desire to go to CA, IL, or the northeast to begin with.

    Call it apathy if you want, but i think our efforts are better spent on more pertinent issues regarding gun rights.
     
  12. 2ndAmendmentFreedom

    2ndAmendmentFreedom New Member

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  13. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

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    The Governor was voted in by the people. We don't live in a direct democracy we live in a representative republic. This law sounds good but has two issues that I see. One is that it is trumping state law and I don't like that. Two is that although reciprocity will be mandated, state law must still be followed and those vary greatly state to state. There will be gun owners that go to jail due to ignorance of the specifics of the law of the state they are in and while that is their own fault the penalties for violating those laws are much more severe than violating a traffic law.
     
  14. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    That's very true. Just being in possession of an AR15 made after September, 1994(?) with a collapsible stock or a bayonet lug or having post-ban hi-cap mags - that can hold more than 10 rounds - might just be a felony in New York. What does that do to your gun rights everywhere in the country? Bad news.

    Rather than mandate a reciprocity bill, how about formally incorporating the Second Amendment against the states, just as many other amendments in the BoR have been? Wanna do 4473 background checks? I'm against it, but I'd tolerate it when purchasing from FFLs or stores. Don't mess with face-to-face sales and we're OK. But that should go for every firearm and registration of any firearm should be illegal.
     
  15. mountainman13

    mountainman13 New Member

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    Personal transfers are already being screwed with in ma. If by some chance you can get your hands on hard copies of the paperwork it won't be accepted anyway. So you have 2 options, pay a dealer for the transfer which limits you to the ag's stupid list or go to the e_fa10 at which point you need all info for both parties. No more guns popping up out of mid air. If the person is from a non-license state you can't do it.
     
  16. Mason609

    Mason609 Active Member

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    Right, the Governor WAS voted in by the people. Just like Every representative, senator (both, state and US) and president. But, that doesn't mean they can pass whatever they want (granted, they do, but..) and you say "it's the will of the people". No, it's not. The people are fickle and you really can't predict how they will side on an issue when it is presented to them.

    Almost everyone thought the people of California would vote against Prop 8. They instead voted FOR it. It was later overturned.

    The people's will is not shown in who they vote into office. It's not what the elected officials dictate it to be.

    As a Republic, our elected officials are supposed to actually represent us, not what they think we want. If they are not 100% certain, they are supposed to ask us.
     
  17. Mason609

    Mason609 Active Member

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    Hmmm... formally incoporating the Second Amendment for all states?? And that would mean what, exactly? The 2A does not allow for concealed carry, it isn't even concerned with an AR with "a collapsible stock or a bayonet lug or having post-ban hi-cap mags". So, how exactly would that be any different?

    Short answer, it wouldn't.

    As far as laws restricting this that and the other thing and getting arrested for violating this law or whatever...

    Check the laws of the states being traveled though, or that you want to go to with your guns.

    Here in MA, our AG doesn't allow XDs. HOWEVER, a lawful gun owner in CT, RI VT or NH that owns one, and wants to go to a range here in MA, CAN bring it with them - as well as their hi-cap mags.

    Our retarded laws concerning firearms restrictions fall under "consumer protection", so all the "illegal" guns that would be coming into our state, won't get you locked up. All that crap means is that we (subjects of the Commonwealth) can't buy them from retailers.
     
  18. Mason609

    Mason609 Active Member

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    Really? I have had no issues with hard copies. Nor have many of the other firearms owners I know. So, where's you proof? (or are you reading crap people say on the internet and taking their word for it?)
     
  19. mountainman13

    mountainman13 New Member

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    If you go to any of the local police departments in the area they will tell you there are no fa-10 forms available. This has been the situation since shortly after the Efa-10 was introduced. I had a bunch of spares in anticipation of this and was informed I could not use them and that peoples transfers had been rejected for doing so. I went over to my buddies shop and asked him and he verified. Efa-10 or dealer transfer only. It's another way for them to limit what is available for people of ma.
     
  20. AIKIJUTSU

    AIKIJUTSU New Member

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    If enforced reciprocity would just stay at that level it would be OK. But "the lord" (not capitalized) giveth and "the lord" taketh away. The feds (not capitalized) are trying to play "the lord". Once they control gun rights and pre-empt states' rights they are likely to replace states' permits with national permits that include the requirement to register all your guns. Then the next thing would be to revoke all the permits and use the lists of guns/owners to confiscate them.

    'Just because I'm paranoid, that doesn't mean they are not out to get me" :D