Featured Muzzle energy ?

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by Green Lantern, Jan 13, 2020 at 10:47 PM.

  1. Green Lantern

    Green Lantern Active Member

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    Looking up ammo to check the muzzle energy. Me being fairly new to guns, but I think I know the answer.

    Does muzzle energy equal recoil? Thinking yes.

    Then a 1300 ft/lb bullet has over twice the recoil as a 500 ft/lb bullet. Yes???
     
  2. sheepdawg

    sheepdawg Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

    Newton's laws of motion.
     
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  3. PeeJay1313

    PeeJay1313 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Agreed.. Unless there's something to absorb the reaction before it is felt...
     
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  4. primer1

    primer1 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Like a heavier platform, longer gas length system, rubber grips, or an overweight shooter.
     
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  5. Maineiak

    Maineiak Member

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    I think generally the heavier the bullet the more recoil. If you propel a .243 bullet weighing 75 grains at 3447FPS it will have less recoil as a 308 bullet weighing 150 grains at 2820FPS. That example also has the energy higher for the 308, so energy, bullet weight, and how heavy the gun is all have a lot to do with recoil.
     
  6. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You are correct concerning "actual" measurable recoil impulse.

    But keep in mind that actual recoil and the "felt" recoil that you feel in your hand are totally different.

    As an example, a .500 S&W firing a 400 grain bullet at 1400 FPS is a bit uncomfortable to shoot.

    A small frame .357 magnum, firing a 158 grain bullet at 1100 FPS is actually quite painful.
     
  7. Mister Dave

    Mister Dave Well-Known Member

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    Gun Wiki: Muzzle Energy

    Gun Wiki: Recoil Energy

    Does muzzle energy equal recoil?

    "Recoil energy, sometimes called “free recoil”, is a byproduct of the propulsive force from the powder charge held within a firearm chamber or breech. The physical event of recoil energy occurs when a powder charge is detonated within a firearm, resulting in the conversion of its chemical energy to thermodynamic energy. This energy is then transferred to the base of the projectile and to the rear of the cartridge or breech, recoiling the firearm rearward into the shooter while the projectile is propelled forward down the barrel. The rearward energy of the firearm when calculated is the recoil energy and the forward energy of the projectile when calculated and is the muzzle energy.

    The concept or word usage of free recoil comes from the tolerability of gross recoil energy. Trying to figure the net recoil energy of a firearm (also known as felt recoil) is a futile endeavor. Even if you can calculate the recoil energy loss due to: muzzle brake; recoil operated action or gas operated action; mercury recoil suppression tube; recoil reducing butt pad and or hand grip; shooting vest and or gloves, the human factor is not calculable.

    Therefore, free recoil stands as a scientific measurement of recoil energy, just as room temperature is measured. The comfort level of a shooter’s ability to tolerate free recoil is a personal perception. Just as it is a personal perception of how comfortable he or she feels to room temperature.

    There are many factors that determine how a shooter will perceive the recoil energy of his or her small arm. Some of the factors are, but not limited to: body mass; body frame; experience; shooting position; recoil suppression equipment; small arm fit and or environmental stressors."

    You asked..... :)
     
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  8. RJF22553

    RJF22553 Well-Known Member

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    All things being equal, your theory is correct, but as others have pointed out, there are several other factors.
    1) weight of the firearm (heavier generally means less felt recoil)
    2) the cycling of the firearm: my semi-auto 12g is far easier on me that a racking shotgun or double-barrelled model
    3) a semi-auto will generally be easier on you than a revolver since cycling absorbs much of the recoil action
    4) design of the firearm (for pistols, the shape of the grip) will also affect the "felt" recoil. That even includes the composition of the grip (foam/rubber versus wood or steel or plastic).
     
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  9. Maineiak

    Maineiak Member

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    Agnes Hailstone hunts with a Mosin, she is small, and the heavy rifle soaks up the recoil:)
     
  10. Maineiak

    Maineiak Member

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    It is simple arithmetic and the formula for recoil energy is simply E=1/2 MV Squared, with "M" being mass of the gun and "V" being the recoil velocity. In other words, you simply square the velocity of recoil, which is easily calculated when we know the weight of the bullet and powder charge and its velocity when exiting from the muzzle. Multiply by the weight of the gun and divide by twice the acceleration of gravity, and you get the recoil energy in foot pounds. What could be simpler? :)
     
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  11. SGWGunsmith

    SGWGunsmith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And if you are really "macho", recoil, no matter how horrendous it actual is, will NEVER be an admitted issue. Despite all the divots in their forehead from the front sight. :)
     
  12. Maineiak

    Maineiak Member

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    Another example of recoil is the 9mm and the 45ACP. I think almost everyone agrees that the .45 has more recoil than a 9MM in the same size gun. Even when you load the 9 with a loading that has the same muzzle energy, it has less recoil than a 45 with the standard loading 230gr going 850fps.

    Refer to the formula I posted, bullet weight and powder charge have a lot to do with the recoil.
     
  13. RJF22553

    RJF22553 Well-Known Member

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    Yes. But Einstein's dead...;)
     
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  14. Les Moore

    Les Moore Well-Known Member

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    Here's the rub, after all the math, recoil is really a personal perception.

    Also bearing in mind ME and MV are going to be transferred to the target medium by only the smaller frontal surface of the bullet, where, as it strikes it's target, with all that energy driving it, can pack quite a wallup. However, recoil is absorbed by hands, arms, shoulders, and the back, after being distributed to the entire contact surface of the firearm
    with the body.
     
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  15. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member Admin Moderator Lifetime Supporter

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    And just to muddy the water a bit- the PERCEIVED recoil will also be affected by how free the shooter is to recoil WITH the gun. A shotgunner, standing with the butt pulled snugly against the shoulder is free to "rock" with the gun.

    Now fire a rifle from the prone position- or from a benchest- where all the recoil forces are expended by squishing you. Ouch. The stock design also comes into play. Skinny buttplate, or wide. Is bore well above the stock, flipping muzzle up- or does it come straight back?

    Had a Browning BAR in 300 Win Mag that I could shoot all morning- and had tiny little .308 bolt gun- 20 rounds from the bench gave you a shoulder that would look like you pissed off a bunch of bikers.
     
  16. freefall

    freefall Well-Known Member

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    Physical build matters a lot too. My BIL and I bought identical Ruger 77 MkIIs in .338. He was a big burly guy, I was a smaller skinny guy (then).
    His beat the crap out of him, I didn't mind mine at all.
     
  17. SGWGunsmith

    SGWGunsmith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So much for physics!:confused:
     
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  18. BlackGuns4Fun

    BlackGuns4Fun Well-Known Member

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    Start with F=MA and the knowledge that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. It's simple physics, really....

    They call it "Fizz-Sucks" for a reason...
     
  19. Mister Dave

    Mister Dave Well-Known Member

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  20. RJF22553

    RJF22553 Well-Known Member

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    I've fired a Mauser Kar98K, and M1 Garand, and an M14. The Mauser kicked my butt!

    Bolt versus semi-auto makes a real difference!
     
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