Murder or Self defence.

Discussion in 'The Club House' started by cpttango30, May 31, 2009.

  1. Yes murder

    16 vote(s)
    36.4%
  2. No Self Defence

    14 vote(s)
    31.8%
  3. Genepool needed a little bit of bleach.

    14 vote(s)
    31.8%
  1. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    I pulled this from another less CCW minded message board. I am one of the youngest board members.

    The attached links to the recent Oklahoma City pharmacy shooting show the security camera video and related stories. I'm interested in knowing whether you believe the shooting was murder or self-defense, not in predicting how the trial will turn out. The poll is private, so please vote.

    http://www.nbc-2.com/Articles/readarticle.asp?articleid=30135&z=3

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090530/ap_on_re_us/us_pharmacy_shooting

    Sorry bout the links. I did s copy and paste. DUR it didn't work.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2009
  2. paganwolf

    paganwolf New Member

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    one link expired the other requires a log in. any other info?
     

  3. Kishido

    Kishido New Member

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    Well, there's no doubt the gene pool needed a little bleach but from what I read the pharmacist shot the guy, left and then came back and shot him again. That's going to hurt him during the trial. I could see it if he simply emptied a mag on the guy during an adrenaline dump but I don't see how he's going to get around what the tape showed.
     
  4. Cnynrat

    Cnynrat New Member

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    I think he went beyond self defense when he came back and shot the guy again repeatedly while he was laying on the ground. It doesn't appear the pharmacist was in any immediate danger at that point in time. Also, according to the news reports he didn't do himself any favors by lying about what happened when he first told the story to the cops.

    However, I think the first degree murder charge is way over the top. Is it possible the DA knows he won't be able to get a first degree murder conviction, and made that the charge so there is a high probability the guy will eventually go free?
     
  5. cbw

    cbw New Member

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    The first shot was legit, the rest seamed to be un called for as the threat was gone. Once the threat is removed no more shooting is allowed, even if the world is a better place without the little scumbag.
     
  6. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    I to think a murder 1 charge will not stick. But I am sure a manslaughter charge will...
     
  7. Cnynrat

    Cnynrat New Member

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    I agree, they could probably get a conviction on manslaughter. The news reports only indicate he is being charged with first degree murder. In OK, if the jury decides they can't convict on that charge, do they get to consider other lesser charges, or does the DA need to also bring the lesser charges in advance?
     
  8. falseharmonix

    falseharmonix New Member

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    +1 for self defense.

    The employee didn't know for sure that he was unconscious. He could have been playing possum, pulled out an unseen weapon, and fired.

    Anyone ever see Saving Private Ryan? Remember when the scout is running, and gets cut down by machine gun fire? Remember how, after he appears to fall dead, that the machine gun continues to pump round after round into his body? The text that follows is something like "As long as there is air in his lungs, he still carries the message".

    Now I know war and robbery are not the same, but as long as that kid was breathing, as long as he was not immobilized, he could be IMO a threat.

    And, the best part of the whole yahoo link:

    Sorry, ma'am. Your 'baby' didn't have to put himself in that situation and go rob a respectable business and get shot at in the first place....
     
  9. Lowrider

    Lowrider New Member

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    I agree with the defense lawer. I want to hear the story. Two armed robbers come in and one goes out. We can't see the status of the wounded guy. Was he reaching for his gun? Was he trying to get up?

    No way was it 1st degree premeditated. There should be a trial to determine the facts, but he should not have been charged with 1st degree. That is a negotiation tool with the defense and the jury.
     
  10. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    See I am glad you guys are here. We can only see one side of the story the camera.

    We cannot hear what is said or see what happens outside. Maybe the chicken shet one is yelling back to brain damaged guy hey pop a cap in that sucka when he comes back in. We can't hear what is going on all we see is a spit second snap shot of the crime.

    I think the partner needs to be brought up on murder 1 charges. They premeditated the robbery knowing full well they could die. That being the case your buddy gets shot you should be charged with murder for getting him into it in the first place.

    Oh this will go to the supreme raciest court and get over turned by our newest Judge.
     
  11. flyingbrickracing

    flyingbrickracing New Member

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    I'm sorry,but I cannot see the justification in shooting the kid after he's down.
    The first shot,hell yes,but chasing the second creep out the door then coming back ,getting a second gun then going back and shooting the punk in the gut,no way
    If he had time to go get another gun the he could have gotten something to tie him up.
    Or better yet REMOVE himself the threat.Use deadly force only as a last resort,isn't that taught in every CCW class?
    I know I'm gonna catch hell for this but I think(I know I wasn't there)if this guy wasn't afraid to get close enough to shoot while standing at the kids feet then the kid was hurt enough to be restrained in a non leathal way.JMHO
     
  12. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice.

    With that said, I think there needs to be an addition to the statement.

    The second shot should be taken in the same week!
     
  13. Minionsram

    Minionsram New Member

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    It was self defense in my book. If the kid did not want to die or have the chance of it , he should have went to WORK and earned an honest living:mad:

    I would say self defense or defense of property if the guy chased the feller down the street and shot him.

    I think thief's, Murder's and Rapist should have no humanly rights. If they are not committing those acts, they would not have gotten shot.:mad:
     
  14. TXnorton

    TXnorton New Member

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    Double tap ,or triple tap..... get your shots in at the right time. But going back with a fresh reload and popping 5 more rounds into a disabled perp is a bit beyond the pale. I have no sorrow for the bandit, and a lot of sympathy for the pharmacist.....but that was not right.
    TXnorton
     
  15. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

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    CBW, Cpttango, Lowrider

    Your all right

    CBW - exaclty, once the threat is gone you can't shoot anymore.

    Lowrider - we may not be seeing the whole picture, I hope a jury gets to see the hole picture. But given only the evidence at hand I say murder.

    Cpttango - his accomplish should be charged with murder. When you commit a felony and and someone dies as a result of that felony, that is the same as if you killed the person yourself.
     
  16. hunter Joe

    hunter Joe New Member

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    Although I believe in jury nullification, I'd be hard pressed to find this man innocent. In my opinion that was murder.
     
  17. mpd8488

    mpd8488 New Member

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    I think you hit the nail on the head there. The clerk was certainly justified in shooting the first time, but if he was truly in fear for his life he had no business walking up to the guy again.

    Of course I also think that murder charges are over the top. Manslaughter, sure.
     
  18. paganwolf

    paganwolf New Member

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    As much as I like to hear about people defending themselves and a$$baggs getting what they deserve, this was not justified. Always make sure that your first volley leaves them DRT.
     
  19. gorknoids

    gorknoids New Member

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    No threat from a head-leaker. It's murder IF it can be proven that the criminal bastard would have lived otherwise. Too bad he wasn't running an abortion mill. We wouldn't even be having this conversation.
     
  20. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    He obviously never learned a lesson from the Bernie Goetz incident. Personally I wouldn't convict him, but it would have been much smarter to empty his magazine into the scumbag the first time. The good news is the Pharmacist won't be getting sued by his attacker!