Most powerful rounds?

Discussion in 'Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection' started by BeyondTheBox, May 1, 2013.

  1. BeyondTheBox

    BeyondTheBox New Member

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    What, to your knowledge or in your experience or have you read, are the most powerful load manufacturers in the following calibers...

    9mm
    45acp

    Plus P included...

    DoubleTap
    CorBon/Glaser
    Buffalo Bore

    What am I missing?

    (Note, what I'm calling powerful is basic muzzle velocity and energy. If you have other ideas on that is be happy to hear them.)
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2013
  2. BeyondTheBox

    BeyondTheBox New Member

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    There's the pre-fragmented stuff like halopoint and magsafe, but I just don't like the major decrease in bullet weight in order to obtain the extended velocities and energies.
     

  3. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    There a 4 actual, official +p cartridges- that is, for which a SAAMI spec exists. .38 Special, 9mm, .45 ACP, and ALL .38 Supers.

    As such there is a max pressure load to still be a +P. So any maker has a ceiling limit on energy for those rounds. Go above it, no longer +P.
     
  4. BeyondTheBox

    BeyondTheBox New Member

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    That was very helpful input, thanks c3!

    I assume that would then put them in the +P+ realm..?
     
  5. BeyondTheBox

    BeyondTheBox New Member

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    I've noticed sort of a theme in my research. The Golden Sabers, Gold Dot, & Critical Duty types all have pretty much the same velocities and energies, but have increased bullet weight over standard pressures of least weight.

    Whereas the Buffalo Bore, CorBon and DoubleTap shortly decrease bullet weight and significantly increase velocity and energy.

    Just an observation, seems to be two different schools of thought on defensive function.
     
  6. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    My opinion is like this:

    45ACP- for defensive ammo- load a hollow-point to the

    least amount of powder which cycle my pistol's action.

    The slower the larger bullet moves, the more time it's

    going to have to mushroom, once it hits the body...
     
  7. fa35jsf

    fa35jsf New Member

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    Look at total kinetic energy on target. It should be listed, that's what really matters.

    The equation for it is
    Kinetic Energy=Mass x Velocity^2 (squared)

    Therefore, if you double the weight of the bullet, you get TWICE the energy.
    If you double the velocity then you get 4 TIMES the energy.

    Keep that in mind
     
  8. TekGreg

    TekGreg Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    BTB,

    velocities and energies are only part of the equation when determining stopping power. While they are helpful in comparing rounds that have the same type of bullet, they can deceive someone on how well they stop.

    The ability of a round to stop an aggressor is a combination of factors that is encompassed in the science of Terminal Ballistics. This is ballistic data encompassing the time the round enters and spends time in the body. Each type of round reacts differently and therefore affects the target differently.

    Tissue disruption is the difference between the temporary stretch cavity and the permanent crush cavity. This can be effected by whether the round passes straight through, or mushrooms, dumping the majority of it's energy in a very short distance, or fragments, causing multiple crush and stretch cavities, albeit smaller.

    Placement also comes into play, as trauma applied to vital organs or the spine can be immediately debilitating, even with minor effects. However, a round expending large amounts of energy and damaging massive amounts of tissues my still cause death only by hypovolemic shock (oxygen/blood loss to tissues) in minutes or hours if badly placed. I refer you to this article for a more advanced look at the subject.

    So velocity and energy are important, but HOW the bullet utilizes the energy in the body is equally important as is initial placement. There are many, many facets to determining efficiency.
     
  9. BeyondTheBox

    BeyondTheBox New Member

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    Very interesting and great points. I think I'll do some more backyard ballistics with some of these rounds before I settle on any one.

    I only recently started to question standard pressure because the federal jhp I've been carrying fail to fully mushroom from my gun in jug tests. The CorBon did great! I think I'm going to start with the high velocity stuff and work my way down.

    I know milk jugs aren't the most accurate, but they're what I've got and without proper equipment or willing bodies, good enough.

    I did find Hornady critical defense to be reliable in 45, perhaps, if I can find some, I'll try them in 9mm as well. Man what a pain all this is.
     
  10. BeyondTheBox

    BeyondTheBox New Member

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    So here's what my current testing has produced thus far, and why I'm inquiring further about ballistics.

    ForumRunner_20130501_222911.jpg

    ForumRunner_20130501_222937.jpg

    ForumRunner_20130501_222949.jpg

    The larger round, fully mushroomed, on the left is Hornady Critical Defense FTX in 45acp, 185gr, from a 3.8" barrel. It performed consistently and reliably.

    The smaller round to the right, Federal Premium Personal Defense in 9mm, 124gr, deformed and barely expanded at all, from a 3.4" barrel. It to performed consistently, but as you can see poorly! Not a one of the 20 completely mushroomed. Most did les than this and went straight through into the backstop.

    I didn't maintain any of the CorBon I shot previously because it was before I realized I was going to really get into all this, but after seeing the poor results from the Federal, I knew I had to start. Will do the CorBon again along with some others out of sheer curiosity.

    It must have to do with barrel length and velocity, perhaps bullet weight as well. In any case, here we go! Lol
     
  11. A. ZX

    A. ZX New Member

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    The TecGreg article was very informative on stopping power and wound balistics, it would highly appreciated if you would post more of these links, thanks in advance for all your help
     
  12. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This again!!!!:rolleyes:
    If you do your research and EXTENSIVE testing you will find, as we have in the past:
    If you use the BEST defensive handgun ammo available today there is less than 5% difference in the wounding caused by the 9, 40, 45 calibers!!!! So it don't amount to a hill of beans which one you decide to use for self defense. The MOST important point is to choose a PPD small enough that you WILL CARRY it, you shoot it VERY well, and it functions reliably with the BEST AMMO available.
    End of story!!!!!:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2013
  13. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    Yes, for bullet performance they are usually designed to perform in a specific velocity range (jacket material and thickness along with lead/antimony alloy ratios). So to get that jacket to give and allow expansion, certain velocity must be attained to generate enough hydraulic pressure inside the cavity to force the bullet open. Likewise, if you exceed the velocity threashold the bullet may fragment prematurely and not acheive enough penetration, becasue the smaller fragments now have lower independent mass, and will lose velocity faster once they are inside a liquid medium.

    Speer has thier short barrel loads which use a different jacket to make reliable expansion more likely at the lower velocities experienced from short barreled guns.
     
  14. rickster

    rickster New Member

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    I'm no expert, in fact I'm learning a lot in this forum. This is only my opinion based on common sense and a little physics. The 45 acp has a larger diameter compared to the 9 mm. Larger diameter will encounter more resistance. Therefore, larger mushroom. Maybe I'm right or maybe I'm not.
     
  15. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    The slower a bullet goes the less likely it is to expand. Testing in wet newspaper, ballistic gel or just shooting into a pile of dirt are not good or even reliable representations of what happens when your confronted by a goblin and your bullet has to go through 4lbs of crack a crackpipe or six the stolen wallets of other victims and his package of rape condoms...

    Hp arent reliable expanders in handguns short of the 357magnum velocities. Humans just arent tough or thick enough (although with welfare fattening the goblins up its getting us thicker goblins) for there to be enough medium to ecpand in. Compound that with low velocities and you get iffy very iffy performance in real world shoots.

    Shot placement is important and so is the permanent hole left behind.

    My thinking goes get the biggest hole i can punch in a goblin to make him/her leak faster. The more they leak the weaker they get so if it comes to hand to hand wrasslin match i want an advantage that grows quick.

    My preference is for 45 because if it fails to expand its still 45 diameter. I do carry 9mm and 380acp. I feel comfy with all three. I train with my guns as much as i can. Frequent training whether its dry fire live fire or just plinking leads to higher familiarity with your firearms and equates to a very high probability of landing rounds in the center of your attacker.

    Being able to handle your firearm, land hits on a target, and shoot accurately rapidly trumps any difference in bullet design.

    One exception, stay away from gimmick bullets like glaser "safety" slugs, disintegrating bullets of any type, and any round that claims to not penetrate walls... you will end up getting beat to death by a goblin you just pissed off instead of dropping him in his tracks with good jacketed hollowpoint.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2013
  16. rickster

    rickster New Member

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    My caliber of preference and my ccw is 40 S&W loaded with Hornady Critical defense. I did shoot a large pig, about 200 lbs, with that particular round and noticed very good expansion. Unfortunately, I have misplaced the bullet or I would post a picture.
     
  17. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You are not wrong, BUT you are talking a few THOUSANDTHS of an inch which makes very little REAL difference in a gunfight.;)
    Secondly, totality of the circumstances. The effect of velocity, weight, bullet construction, and cross sectional area MUST ALL be considered with each bullet. ;)
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2013
  18. gearhead396

    gearhead396 New Member

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    I also carry a 40 s&w loaded with hornady critical defense. I often shoot trash and old computers and what not and I have noticed. That with the 40 above the 9mm the 45 and my buddy's 30-30. The 40 from a few shots just tears the insides outta the computer tower and tvs like no other round I have shot so far at them.
     
  19. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So you think a computer tower and tv are similar to the anatomy of a human???:rolleyes:
     
  20. gearhead396

    gearhead396 New Member

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    No not at all but I think that it shows something about there effectiveness.