Mosin Nagant

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by southpawgunner, Jul 16, 2013.

  1. southpawgunner

    southpawgunner New Member

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    I am looking at buying a Mosin Nagant. I have looked on here at the threads and was wondering if there was any difference in accuracy or overall performance between the round receiver or the hexagonal receiver? I know from online that the Mosin's with the hexagonal receiver are priced higher than the round receivers are higher. . . being so, I figured there must be a difference between the two, where the hexagonal receiver is better. . why is that?
     
  2. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    No practical difference in accuracy. I have had both. The biggest factor in accuracy on the MN 91/30 is the bore condition.

    The reason thta people prefeer teh hex recievers is because they are generally finished nicer. The Russians stopped the hex receivers to speed up and simplify production. In the peak of action between the Russians and the Nazis even more machining steps were cut out, and they would use milling dies that were pretty worn, and the receivers show it in the score marks. So the round receiver war time rifles have some of the worst appearance, and that reputation has made them also have less value to some collectors. If you get a hex receiver you are guaranteed pre-war production, while taking a round receiver rifle, opens the possibility of a rough looking rifle. I'll try to post some pics later of a war time receiver and a pre-war hex receiver so you can see the aesthetic differences.
     

  3. grandpubba

    grandpubba Member

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    Thanks doc, I also was wondering that, I noticed my local mom and pop site had a couple creates along with the big box store, one is roughly 200 and the other place is 150ish.
     
  4. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    Here is a look at a 1943 war-time round receiver compared to a 1925 Hex. Both are made by Izshevsk, but you can see where some of the manufacturing cut backs occurred to speed production. Both guns shoot about the same.

    Notice that on the hex receiver the area in front and behind the stripper clip guide is dished out to give it a bit more of a sloped appearance and reduce weight, while the 1943 has what is referred to as a "hi-wall" that is left in the raw machined state, and has a lot of chatter marks from the machining equipment.
    [​IMG]

    The markings ont the 1943 are simple, and lightly struck.
    [​IMG]

    The 1925 has more elaborate markings, that are deeply struck into the receiver, and the hex area is nice and smooth.
    [​IMG]

    A better look at the chatter marks and the "hi-wall" on the 1943
    [​IMG]

    Again, as far as function goes, there is no real notable difference. But in manufacturing time and attention, the pre-war rifle shows more attention and time invested in the manufacturing.
     
  5. southpawgunner

    southpawgunner New Member

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    Thanks Doc. The pics really help and clarify everything you said. I guess it would be a good idea to try to get the hex receiver, but like you said it is about the bore condition.

    I've read on another thread that You can check the bore condition by inserting the bullet into the end of the barrel and if it only goes about halfway in then it's good but if it goes completely in and touched brass then it is lesser than the previous. Does this seem logical?
     
  6. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    Sounds logical, but it can depend on how deep the bullet is seated in the case neck, and where the ogive if the bullet is (the area wher the bullet begins to get narrower as you head toward the point).
     
  7. southpawgunner

    southpawgunner New Member

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    Ahhh... Haha that was too easy. I should start reviewing my questions before hitting the send button..

    One last question: I have read that the Mosin Nagants were submerged into a liquid coat to help protect them after the war.. I can't remember what it's called. But do you have to worry about 'baking' or cleaning your Mosin for a lack of better terms because of this protective coating? Or does it not matter and you don't have to mess with it when bought?
     
  8. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    Mine were covered in Cosmoline. It is s mix of oil, kerosene and bees wax. I removed the metal parts from the stock and used mineral spirits to clean them off. The wood was set in Georgia sunshine wrapped in newspaper to help sweat out the grease. Mineral spirits woul remove some of the varnish off the stock, so I avoided chemical cleaning there.

    The varnish seemed to help keep the grease from penetrating too deep into the wood, and I haven't had major problems of continued grease coming out of the stocks when I take them out to the range or field. But it's still a habit to take rags with me in case I do need to wipe them down.
     
  9. longunner

    longunner New Member

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    Let me start by saying yes yes yes you need to clean off the cosmoline before shooting it, not only for the way it feels but because it will affect the function of the bolt when it gets warm. It's called sticky bolt and if you don't get it all out you will face this problem. That being said there's a million different ways on how people do it and the chemicals they use to do it. I recommend going on YouTube and checking out a bunch of different ways to do it, then pick whatever you think suits you best. Good luck and if you get a Mosin let us know!! And remember, pics or it didn't happen :D
     
  10. Steel_Talon

    Steel_Talon New Member

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    I've been thinking about getting the M44 Russian model myself. I like the "carbine" size
     
  11. longunner

    longunner New Member

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    Do it! It's a whole lot of fun, I have 2 type 53s which are a clone of the M44
     
  12. KJG67

    KJG67 New Member

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    This site was passed along to me from someone here on the forum, and it's a great resource for a lot of information.

    http://7.62x54r.net/

    You must absolutely get the cosmoline off BEFORE shooting. Wrapping the wood in newspaper and a plastic garbage bag works well, as you'll read on the 'net.

    Cosmo removal. I can attest for the PVC pipe trick.
    [ame]http://youtu.be/3zFP5ZZQe6g[/ame]

    Pretty good disassembly video.
    [ame]http://youtu.be/bBO8NCWiks4[/ame]

    A decent video on bolt disassembly.
    [ame]http://youtu.be/A9byqFz3p04[/ame]

    When you're all done, buy yourself a massage, as your shoulder will need it after a fun day at the range with these :D
     
  13. longunner

    longunner New Member

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    Yea the PVC pipe trick works great, I've done it on all three of mine
     
  14. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    All good information- thank you. folks!

    Re: Quick check of MUZZLE wear, yes, that is one way to do it with any rifle- GENTLY insert the bullet of a cartridge into the muzzle. HOWEVER-
    Please note that due to excessive wear of the rifling at the muzzle, when many of these came back thru the arsenal, the muzzles were counterbored about an inch. They did that to get back to good rifling. The last inch is a larger diameter than the bore (and unrifled) and a cartridge inserted into THAT will drop all the way in. Does not mean a bad bore- most shoot pretty well.
     
  15. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    WD 40 cleans cosmoline from both wood and steel surfaces without damage or staining. Once you get the cosmoline off the gun give it a good soap and hot water bath.

    I have a hex Mosin Nagant. I bought my Mosin Nagant when they were plentiful. Every gun shop in the area had at least a case of 91/30 rifles. I went through case after case until I found a smooth functioning rifle with a good bore. It just happened to be a Hex receiver. I didn't pick it because it was a hex receiver. I picked it because it was the best gun I had seen. It looks like it was never issued.
     
  16. vincent

    vincent New Member

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    A visual...:cool:
     

    Attached Files:

  17. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    Another area to check if the barrel is stuffed with cosmoline is the receiver. If the area where the bolt locks shows no signs of wear the gun has not been used very much. Many of the 91/30 rifles I inspected showed wear to the receiver. I didn't bother with looking at the muzzle once I saw the receiver was worn.
     
  18. Steel_Talon

    Steel_Talon New Member

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    I built an oven from a galvanized garbage can, to porcelain socket sets 2, flood lamps, a rheostat, some grill racks, and a 12 foot heavy extension .

    basically the oven lays on its side.
    I wired INLINE the lamp sockets , the rheostat, using the HD electric cord
    Screwed the Flood lamps in place
    set in the grill racks to hold the disassembled rifle and parts with cosmoline.
    Place lid on can and turn on the lights. Heat comes and the cosmoline drips/sweats away..
     
  19. KJG67

    KJG67 New Member

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    There's a YouTube video on that oven. It looks really cool and supposed to work great. I did hear not to use your household oven, as the wife will kill you due the smell of the cosmo melting.
     
  20. kalboy26

    kalboy26 New Member

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    Try using a heat gun to get off the cosmoline. It works quick and good. You can get one at harbor freight for pretty cheap. Brake cleaner works good too for intricate parts. Just don't get it on the stock.