Mosin Nagant

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by longunner, Jul 3, 2012.

  1. longunner

    longunner New Member

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    Thinking of getting a mosin nagant to hunt deer/ to have a good bolt action rifle that will shoot pretty far...any thoughts? I've also been thinking of buying 2 to keep one in original condition (to maybe sell in 50 years?) and one to get maybe a new stock and some other goodies for.
     
  2. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    Ammo selection is pretty small. Accuracy can vary pretty widely depending on condition of the gun and bore. Also different guns like different ammo. Mounting scopes is not as practical on these as some other platforms. So, as a reliable long range hunting piece, there are better choices.
     

  3. mountainman13

    mountainman13 New Member

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    Great rifle for the money. Buy them before they dry up and get expensive.
     
  4. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    Now if you just wanted to get a inexpensive blaster, that isfun and cheap to shoot right now, then they are great. If that blaster turned out to be really accurate, then it could double as a hunting gun.
     
  5. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    Actually Heavy ball is accurate for targets, plinking. 180 and 203gr sp are perfect for hunting. Sure there are better long range rifles, but not at $100.00. Mounting a scope is pretty simple if you use a scout mount. PU mounts were used on high wall rifles. Even if a Smith charges $20.00 a hole, that is $60.00.
    They will work w/ a low wall also.
     
  6. bamashooter68

    bamashooter68 Member

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    I have killed deer with my M-44 shooting S&B 174gr. match ammo. I know its not recommended but it done the job very well. S&B makes good ammo for hunting as does privi partisan.
     
  7. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    It may depend on what he means by long range.

    I've seen Mosins that shoot at or around 1" at 100yds and I've seen some that would shoot 6-8" groups at 100yds , which would be pushing it to shoot at a deer for a reliable kill much beyond that distance. I One mosin that shoots Brown Bear bullets at about 1.5" at 100 yds, but this is because the bore is pretty worn and the Brown bear bullets are a bit larger in diameter so they engage the rifling better. With other loads it can vary from 2-4" groups at 100yds.

    All I'm saying is that someone buying one cannot bet that the one they get will shoot accurately enough to be counted on as a long range deer gun. There is something resembling a game of chance when buying a Mosin.

    Some are indeed accurate enough to take a shot at deer out to 400 yds. But again, there is no guarantee that picking one off of a rack will get you one that is capable of that level of accuracy.

    Yes, tehy can be scoped, but they are not ideal for using a conventional scope. Bolt needs to be bent or have a bent bolt fitted. Action needs to eb drilled and tapped, or yes there is a scout scope which is not ideal for long range, but an improvement over iron sights.

    I do think that at the current prices Mosins are a good deal as historical pieces and casual shooters. I you find one that is accurate, then it mught be worth putting it to use on deer. Hopefully it likes one of the few hunting loads out there, as most surplus ammo is not allowed for hunting in most states.
     
  8. longunner

    longunner New Member

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    When I say long range I mean 200 yards max...also i recently heard that the mosin uses 7.62x54r and that this is a rimfire cartridge will this affect accuracy in any major way and/or am I wrong about the bullet in the first place?
     
  9. longunner

    longunner New Member

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    "most surplus ammo is not allowed for hunting in most states. "

    I wasn't aware of that thanks for the info doc
     
  10. spack762

    spack762 New Member

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    The 7.62x54r is a centerfire. The 'R' stands for rimmed. It's one of the oldest rounds in use by a military.
    Back in the old days the Russians used it as a inderect fire support round out of there heavey machinguns. I've read that it was accuirt to 5000 meters.
     
  11. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    As said, is a rimmed cartridge (like a 30-30) not rimfire. Power is between .308 and 30-06. Most will shoot minute-of-whitetail at 200 yards.

    Many states do not permit use of FMJ (full metal jacket) ammo when hunting- issue is not surplus, but wounding an animal that dies later. Get some good softpoint ammo for hunting.

    As far as buying for investment- hell, if I knew that, would I tell you? We all have lousy fortune teller skills. But buying one becasue they are cheap and fun to shoot- hell yeah!
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2012
  12. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    As C3shooter clarified, it is not an issue of it being surplus but the fact that surplus 7.62x54R ammo uses full metal jackets. In most states FMJ ammo is not allowed for hunting, so commercial FMJ wouldn't be allowed either. You won't find surplus soft point ammo.

    And I'm not trying to discourage you from buying a Mosin Nagant. They are fun guns to shoot, and you can do it on a budget. I just didn't want you to make plans on a dedicated hunting rifle out of one of these.

    If hunting is THE primary goal I would recommend saving and buying something that you would have a greater chance of buying and getting predictable performance and easier optics mounting out of. Usually you would have a beter chance of getting something lighter, shorter, and a smoother action along with a better trigger too. There are also other surplus rifles out there that make better hunting rifles, like Mausers. I wouldn't buy one in military form and change it, but would look for one that was already chopped up by someone else. No need to ruin another collectible rifle, when there are abundant other rifles that have already had collector value removed. I've got a nice 7x57mm Mauser that is a pleasure to shoot and is already sporterized. Of course, I can't buy a 440 round spam can of ammo for under $100 for the Mauser.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2012
  13. longunner

    longunner New Member

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    So from what I am understanding the mosin can only shoot surplus ammo, or is it that its hard to find hunting grade ammo in the caliber that the mosin fires
     
  14. longunner

    longunner New Member

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    "As far as buying for investment- hell, if I knew that, would I tell you?"

    I guess in good time we will find out if I have a piece of invaluable Ruski hardware or just ANOTHER piece of junk that I'm going to have to try to get off my hands lol
     
  15. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    It's just that there is a pretty limited selection of hunting ammo. Brown bear, prvi partisan, sellor & Bellot are the only ones I know of. The hunting ammo is usually not as much of a bargain either.
     
  16. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    No one has said that a Moisin-Nagant HAS to shoot military surplus ammo. There are several makers of the civilian soft point hunting ammo- including Winchester. See link- http://www.nextag.com/7__62-54-ammo/stores-html

    And while the hunting ammo is not dirt cheap, it IS comparable to other .30 cal hunting ammo in price.
     
  17. longunner

    longunner New Member

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    Another question is what makes the hex receiver so much different I've heard that if you see a mosin with one you gotta pick it up right away is it because they are more rare or more reliable or what?
     
  18. dteed4094

    dteed4094 New Member

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    I hated my first Mosin after the its debut at the range. After researching it on this forum I learned how to overcome most of the bad points. I now shoot it and next 5 I bought more than my more contemporary rifles. I started with an 8 MOA group. With a little educational tinkering it now shoots 2-3 MOA. Not a tack driver but part of that is more than likely me and part is the inconsistancy of the very affordable milsurp ammo. If you buy one and decide you don't like it you shouldn't have any problem finding someone to take it off your hands. Before you buy do some research on what to look for. I suggest Aim surplus to buy from. I have been pleased with the Mosins I bought from them.
     
  19. BRAD313

    BRAD313 New Member

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    Most hex are pre war so they did not cut corners building them all around most think they are better guns don't quote me on this I herd if u want to convert them properly to a sniper version u want a hex one for the scope mounting
     
  20. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    Here's some pics ofd differences between a wartime receiver (round 1943) and a prewar hex receiver. You can definitely see that the Russians were cranking them out for function as fast as they could when the Nazis were on their door step.

    [​IMG]

    1925 hex markings. Also note the machining is much smoother. This is made in the same factory as the 1943 in these pictures. Big differences in the details. Also, the bolt operates much smoother on the '25 even when I get it hot with laquer coated ammo which some people have tried to convince me will melt when it's hot and stick the bolt shut (Haven't experienced it myself with hot Mosins though after I've scrobbed the chambers completely free of cosmoline.)
    [​IMG]

    Markings on a "peak of war time" 1943:
    [​IMG]

    The '43 is out of the stock, because it was not properly fitted and the stock began to split resulting in 8-10 inch groups at 100 yds. After repairing, pinning, and bedding the action to the stock, groups are down to 2" with Brown Bear "Match" loads.

    The Winchester Brass cased commercial ammo shoots pretty well to, but it is just rebranded Sellor & Bellot, which you can usually buy for a couple bucks less per box under the original Czech brand name. (The Winchester box says it's made in Czech Republic, and the ammo shoots the same).