Mosin Nagant

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by Lefty, May 16, 2009.

  1. Lefty

    Lefty New Member

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    I picked up a Mosin Nagant M44 and a Mossberg .22 a few years ago and I just got around to shooting the M44 last summer. I'm not a crack shot by any count (I'm mainly a handgunner), but I couldn't hit paper from 25 yards. I shot fine with the .22 so it's not my eyes or my hands.

    I know nothing about the sights and I was hoping to figure them out once I got some holes for reference. Someone at the range told me that the M44s were sighted with the bayonet out so I tried that with no improvement (It's a novelty gun, so the bayonet stays.)

    I know Russian rifles aren't known for their precision, but is there something obvious I'm missing (besides the broad side of a barn)?
     
  2. dragunovsks

    dragunovsks New Member

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    Check the position of your rear sight, if it's slid up to far it could be causing you to miss your target. Are your misses consistent or are they all over the paper? Sometimes a rifle would benefit from a good cleaning.

    Of course, you might just need some practice, fortunately the Mosin-Nagant is farely inexpensive to shoot so practice won't smoke your wallet.:D
     

  3. Laufer

    Laufer New Member

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    Lefty;

    A friend (co-worker) is a bonafide marksman, and was on a military rifle team for years.

    I finally had a chance for Mike to test one of my common Russian MN 44s at a range.
    The target is the black plastic peel-off type, and Mike had my rifle on his small bean bags at 50 yards.

    Out of the ten or so rounds, all Bulgarian HB, he never found holes for two of them, and the rest were really scattered, maybe two near the bull's eye.
    I'm too new to guns to know what the problem really is (though I'm 53), but various people on these websites suggest 'bedding' the rifle, which I've only read about.
    Others claim that even limited corrosion might be a curse (this bore is fairly shiny), or just a worn crown.
    But even with hot barrels, both my Mini 30 and SKS are much better, along with the LE 'Jungle Carbine'.

    Among other places, you can get some good ideas from the experienced MN shooters at "Gunandgame".
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2009
  4. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

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    Make sure the rear sight is in the right position, then clean the heck out of the barrel. Mosins have spent their existence shooting corrosive ammunition and their barrels can be a real mess.

    With any luck, the barrel will clean up well enough to get you minute of zombie at 100 yards. A group of up to six inches or so is not uncommon. If it does better, that's more of an exception rather than the rule. Four inches is excellent.

    Remember, it's an old battle rifle that was designed to be used by peasants under all types of conditions. Mosins are incredibly strong and dependable, but they aren't necessarily tack drivers.

    Ammunition will make a big difference as well. In my M38 and 91/59, Yugoslavian heavy ball produced excellent groups, but they also produced one heck of a kick. Try out some different weights of ammunition too. I believe that Polish ammo is supposed to be pretty good as well.

    You may want to pick up a box or two of commercial ammunition to see what that does as well. Winchester shot incredibly well and accurately.

    If none of that does the job, sell it and buy another one, they're cheap enough to buy and sell regularly. If worse comes to worst, you can extend the bayonet and use it as a garden stake. ;)
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2009
  5. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    At 25 yards, you will be shooting REALLY high. I think the lowest sight setting is 100 yards. As the guys said, clean the bore (and chamber) check the rear sight position. Many of these have bad rifling at the muzzle, and accuracy goes in the toilet. and get a really big target until you find out where it is shooting. Seriously, get a 3'x3' sheet of cardboard.
     
  6. flyingbrickracing

    flyingbrickracing New Member

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    All good adivce,for more try mosinnagant.net .
    Surplusrifle.com also has some good info.
     
  7. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Active Member

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    M44 and the bayonet

    M44's should have a bayonet attached!!
    By removing the bayonet it throws off the sights considerbly, also the type ammo used makes a big difference verticaly at 100yds a 140gr steel core milsurp ammo shoots 10 inches high in my scoped Mosin P-27 and useing 205gr heavy soft point is dead on! the carbines with bayonets were enginerred to be fired with the bayonet installed and extended!
    I think it best to check out the data on battle sight settings as (Russia) dident zero there weapons at 100yds so if you tried to zero (POA) at 100 yds you are going to be waaaaay off with a missing bayonet!

    Milsurprifle.com is a good place to check also Gunboards.com as well
    there should be links that directly will be able to help you with sight work.
     
  8. 7.62 Man

    7.62 Man New Member

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    Do a bullet check on your Mosin like this;
    GOOD
    [​IMG]
    The Mosin above is a Polish circle 11, it shoots great. I have shot 18in. gongs at 400yds. (after a few shots to find the target) it can shoot farther than I can see.
    Or BAD
    [​IMG]
    The bottom Mosin (Hungarian marked 02) has a bad barrel the tip of the bullet goes all the way in to the case. It was a cheap buy I picked up it is fun to shoot, but the only way it will hit anything is with heavy ball ammo some thing with a dia. of .311 or larger. Then it is only good to about 75yds. hitting about a 9 to 10 in. circle.
    I tried the light ammo and I could not hit the back stop.

    And Rex is right you need the bayonet attached, mine doesn't need to be out to shoot but without it my Mosin's shoot all over the place. I think it has to do with the vibration of the barrel.
    Here is a good link for picking out what ammo to buy for a sick gun. Check the ammo's dia. and find some large enough to grab the rifling.
    7.62x54r Ammunition Evaluations
    Click on DATA to find the dia. & a picture of the package it comes in.
     
  9. gregs887

    gregs887 New Member

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    Ditto on the rear sight and the bayonet. Give it a thorough cleaning and you should be good to go. My M91 had a crap ton of cosmoline all over it that took a while to clean. night and day difference.
     
  10. Laufer

    Laufer New Member

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    7.62 Man:

    'Roger that'. The bottom photo is the same is with mine.
    Though I've had the one MN 44 since last August, maybe some extra nitro solvent in the bore followed by lots of drying could help?
     
  11. fmfcorpsman

    fmfcorpsman New Member

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    Mosin Nagants

    Have 10 or 11 MN's: M38 x 1, M91/30 x3, M44 x2, M91/59 x3 and 2 Finn M39's. One thing that is very clear is that the barrel makes a huge difference. The 2 Finns have Tikka barrels and hitting the 18" gong at 500 meters 50% or more of shots is quite feasible despite my 60 year old eyes. None of the Russians have a prayer of doing that in my hands. None the less five inch groups are quite practical at 100 meters if the bore is in decent shape and has been cleaned. I mean really cleaned... like hours of powder, lead and copper solvent applications. Fortunately, I have 3 sons and some nephews who are eager to shoot and understand the price of using my rifles and ammo. Which leads to my question. Per a complaint from a nephew, I am curious about anyone's experience with so called electric bore cleaning systems.

    Corpsman
     
  12. 7.62 Man

    7.62 Man New Member

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    A buddy of mine told me that back boring these gun does fix the problem.
    I checked his M38 it has been back bored about 2" but still shoots good.
    I don't know how much this cost but it could be cheaper than buying a new gun.
     
  13. Minionsram

    Minionsram New Member

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    When you say Back boring are you talking of reaming the chamber then re-headspacing the rifle?
     
  14. 7.62 Man

    7.62 Man New Member

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    No, I think the proper term is counter boring. It's done at the end of the muzzle. It looks like they bored it to a larger size to remove the bad rifling without shorting the barrel.
    The only thing I know is his gun shoots good and my gun doesn't & this counter bore is the only diferance.
     
  15. flyingbrickracing

    flyingbrickracing New Member

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    Is it like recrowning to remove damage?
    My M44 has a 3/4 inch to an inch rescess from the tip of the barrel.
    My guess is this was done so the bayonet will still work.
     
  16. DrGonzo11

    DrGonzo11 New Member

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    Using the bayonet might help, they were originally sighted in with it on (more so with 91/30's). My guess is the barrel is shot if its that bad that close up, Try the bullet test and if it is worn out sell it to your local gun shop and pick up another one, that the beauty of Mosin's, they are dirt cheap. You might also check for any damage to the front sight, sometimes they get bent up the way they are handled through the surplus market , then somebody bends them back to what they think is the right place. But if it has a front sight hood its probably fine in that regard.
     
  17. trautert

    trautert New Member

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    Years of overly zealous cleaning by Boris grinds the muzzles out of round. This allows the gasses to escape unevenly around the base of the bullet when it leaves the muzzle. Counter boring up to 1 1/2 inches allows the muzzle to crown evenly and brings everything back into workable tolerances. Even if counter-bored, it may not be in far enough. Then there are other issues possible, like even a bent barrel, which doesn't always show up.
    Tom
     
  18. Laufer

    Laufer New Member

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    7.62:

    Well, your bottom photo depicts the muzzle on the rifle which Mike tried out at 50 yards. The bayonet was extended for several shots.
    Would it hurt, just once, to clean about three times really well at one sitting with nitro solvent?

    After shooting on average about 20-30 rounds, then at home cleaning the corrosion with Windex and wet patches/drying, I only use about one or two patches of Hoppe's #9.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2009
  19. mattb348

    mattb348 New Member

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    Thats a really good idea on how to check the barrel. I never would have thought of that in a million years, so thank you very much!

    By the way, can you check the barrel of other types of guns in this same manner, to see if they have a bad barrel???

    Thanks!
     
  20. Lefty

    Lefty New Member

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    Thanks everyone

    I think a good cleaning is due. I give everything a quick pass with a wet patch after every shoot, but I didn't give the Mosin a thorough cleaning when I got it--stupid, I know, but the guy I bought it from takes good care of his guns.
    I'm going shooting next weekend and I have 80 rounds of Russian military surplus ammo to waste before buying any more.

    I had the rear sight set at its lowest point. I figured at 25 yards, sights are overkill anyway. I think I'll make a chart and shoot 80 rounds at one notch intervals.

    On a semi-related note, I'm basically a self-taught shooter. Could someone direct me to a good basic book or website of marksmanship basics (terminology, etc.)? I don't really understand minutes or windage.