More WW II now and then excellent!

Discussion in 'History' started by boatme98, Apr 25, 2018.

  1. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Well-Known Member

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    General Dugout Doug had his own song!

    Dugout Dougby Henry G. Lee [parody sung to the tune of "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" (1942)]
    Dugout Doug MacArthur lies ashaking on the Rock

    Safe from all the bombers and from any sudden shock

    Dugout Doug is eating of the best food on Bataan

    And his troops go starving on.

    Dugout Doug’s not timid, he’s just cautious, not afraid

    He’s protecting carefully the stars that Franklin made

    Four-star generals are rare as good food on Bataan

    And his troops go starving on.

    Dugout Doug is ready in his Kris Craft for the flee

    Over bounding billows and the wildly raging sea

    For the Japs are pounding on the gates of Old Bataan

    And his troops go starving on…

    Anonymous, 1942

    Dugout Douganonymous [parody sung to the tune of "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" (1942)]
    Dugout Doug MacArthur lies ashaking on The Rock,
    Safe from all the bombers and from any sudden shock,
    Dugout Doug is eating of the best food on Bataan,
    And his troops go starving on.

    Glory, glory, it ain't for him we die,
    May our bare bones refute his lies,
    Glory, glory, hallelujah!
    His troops go starving on.

    We have seen him in the flickering of ten-thousand cigarettes,
    We have seen him scurry between dug-in barbettes,
    Dugout Doug MacArthur lies ashaking on The Rock,
    And his troops go starving on.

    Glory, glory, it ain't for him we die,
    May our bare bones refute his lies,
    Glory, glory, hallelujah!
    His troops go starving on.

    Dugout Douganonymous Marine in the Philippines (1942)
    Mine eyes have seen MacArthur
    With a Bible on his knee,
    He is pounding out communiqués
    For guys like you and me,
    And while possibly a rumor now,
    Someday 'twill be a fact,
    That the Lord will hear a deep voice
    Say, "Move over God, it's Mac!"




    https://forums.armchairgeneral.com/...orld-war-ii/personalities/5094420-dugout-doug

    MacArthur selected one of several plans prepared, but changed to another one after the war started. MacArthur also refused to ship Rice and Canned Food from warehouses in Manila to Bataan even after he decided to retreat to Bataan. The Japanese bombed the warehouses and it all burned. He also expected the Pacific Fleet to come and save him, even after Pearl Harbor.
    he pushed the build-up of the PI military too fast, ignoring problems such as the language barriers, lack of equipment, and above all a shortage of trained personnel and specialists. He was more interested in creating divisions under his command than an actual military.

    Had he made the development slower, staying within the bounds of his resources of material and training base, the PI forces would have been a third of the size, but much more combat-effective. That would have meant that the weak logistical stockpiles would have had to support far fewer men, while having a better combat capability.

    He also refused to prepare any sort of 'stay-behind' guerrilla organization in case of defeat despite having a nation that was physically and culturally perfect for that role; instead, the guerrilla forces wasted two years inventing themselves, a time period where they could have been a major asset.

    When the Japanese invaded he simply retreated and dug in to wait for help, then fled his command, leaving them to die on the vine.

    The US Army was in he process of desperately gearing up in 39-41; it did not have the resources to equip an entire army in the PI at the same time, although they were trying. The Army Chiefs did fail to send more trainers, but in their defense the supply of cadre for the US Army was inadequate. And Bugout Doug made poor use of what he was given.

    He made the same mistakes in the post-war period, letting his garrison units wither on the vine so that they went into Korea out of shape, poorly-training, and under-equipped.

    Bugout Doug was a paper general; all he cared about was how many divisions he had under his command. He cared nothing for the troops, nor for efficiency.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/almost...015/08/31/myths-of-macarthur-dugout-doug/amp/

    https://forums.armchairgeneral.com/...orld-war-ii/personalities/5094420-dugout-doug

    In just a couple minutes on Google kicked up all sorts of info on Dugout Doug MacArthur.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
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  2. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    QUOTE="Rex in OTZ, post: 2158664, member: 4663"]Bugout Doug was a paper general; all he cared about was how many divisions he had under his command. He cared nothing for the troops, nor for efficiency.[/QUOTE]

    Malarky.

    Yep, Google finds all kinds of trash, some true, some not true.

    Yep, lots of folks talk all kinds of stuff about MacArthur. MacArthur was decorated with seven Silver Stars for Valor and two Distinguished Service Crosses in WWI. The US Army don't give that stuff away.

    MacArthur's army was doomed from the day the Japanese army invaded the Philippines. The US couldn't support MacArthur.

    Field Marshall, the Viscount Alanbrooke, Chief of the British Imperial General Staff said in his diary that MacArthur "outshone Marshall, Eisenhower and all the other American and British Generals including Montgomery."

    During WWII MacArthur scared the socks off his staff, including his doctor, by repeatedly visiting the front lines.

    Suggested reading: American Caesar by William Manchester.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
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  3. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Well-Known Member

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    the-daring-calcutta-light-horse-raid-03.jpg
    Geriatric Commandos?
    Operation Creek: SOE Enlists an “Over the Hill Gang” for a Mission
    Operation Creek (also known as "Operation Longshanks") was a military operation under taken by the British in World War Two on 9 March 1943. It involved a covert attack by members of the Calcutta Light Horse against a German merchant ship, Ehrenfels, which had been transmitting information to U-boats from Mormugão Harbour in neutral Portugal's territory of Goa.
    The mission remained secret due to the fact that the British had infringed Portuguese neutrality, until 1978 when its story was told in the book, Boarding Party, by James Leasor.

    The Germans had a secret transmitter on one of their ships, the Ehrenfels, a freighter that had sought refuge with two other German vessels, the Braunfelsand the Drachenfels, in the neutral harbour of Goa on the outbreak of WW2. Its purpose was to guide the U-boats against Allied shipping in the Indian Ocean. There seemed no way for the British to infringe Goa’s Portugueseneutrality by force. But the transmitter had to be silenced. Special Operations Executive was tasked with dealing with the problem, but how? Then it was remembered that 1,400 miles away in Calcutta was a source of possible help. A group of civilian bankers, merchants and solicitors were the remains of an old territorial unit called The Calcutta Light Horse. They were either in reserved jobs or considered too old to join up. Because the mission was supposedly unofficial, the 14 members of the assault team received no official recognition of their part in the war effort. They didn't even receive the most basic war medals.
    The effect of the mission is borne out by the facts. During the first 11 days of March 1943 three German U-boats, U-160, U-182 and U-506, accounted for 12 British, American, Norwegian and Dutch ships, a total of roughly 80,000 tons. Of these, U-160 alone sank 10. But without the radio messages to give precise details of speed, destination, cargo and other material factors, U-boat commanders now had to rely only on luck or chance for their kill. During the rest of March, the 13 German U-boats operating in the Indian Ocean only sank one ship, the Panamanian Nortun of 3,663 tons. Throughout the following month of April, their total was only three.


    https://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/soe-enlists-an-over-the-hill-gang-for-a-mission/

    https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/2015/11/30/the-daring-calcutta-light-horse-raid/
     

    Attached Files:

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  4. Rentacop

    Rentacop Well-Known Member

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    MacArthur did not desert his troops . He was ordered to leave by Roosevelt . Also, he believed that he would get reinforcements because Roosevelt led him to believe help was on the way .
    There's more wrong in your post but that is enough to cite . I also recommend Machester's book .
     
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  5. sheepdawg

    sheepdawg Well-Known Member Supporter

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    How would it have looked to the world and America if the Japanese had captured MacArthur months after Pearl Harbor? One of the things Roosevelt had to take that in to consideration when he ordered MacArthur off Bataan.

    So MacArthur had an ego, so did Patton, so did Rommel.
     
  6. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Well-Known Member

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    The story how a secret chemical weapons shipment was bombed and its aftermath.
    And its modern application to fighting cancer?o_O


    The Bari incident.

    Air raid on Bari and the sinking of the U.S. Liberty Ship SS John Harvey.

    December 2, 1943
    Bari, Italy
    On this date in 1943 a squadron of German Junkers Ju 88 bombers flew over the port of Bari on Italy’s Adriatic coast, newly liberated by the Allies, and sank 27 ships, among them the SS John Harvey. The ship, crewed normally by 81 seamen, carried explosive munitions and a secret consignment of 2,000 mustard gas shells. Hit amidships, the U.S. Liberty ship was destroyed in a huge explosion, causing liquid sulfur mustard to spill into the water and a toxic cloud of mustard vapor to blow over the city. It was the only (and unintentional) release of chemical weapons in the course of the World War II by the Allies. (Japan used poison gas in combat operations in China.)



    https://ww2days.com/poison-gas-tragedy-in-italys-bari-harbor.html

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_raid_on_Bari

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_John_Harvey

    The U.S. Liberty ship John Harvey—had been carrying a secret cargo of 2000 M47A1mustard gas bombs, each holding 60–70 lb (27–32 kg) of the agent. According to Royal Navy historian Stephen Roskill, this cargo had been sent to Europe for potential retaliatory use if Germany carried out its threatened use of chemical warfare in Italy.
    The destruction of John Harvey caused liquid sulfur mustard from the bombs to spill into waters already contaminated by oil from the other damaged vessels. The many sailors who had abandoned their ships into the water became covered with this oily mixture which provided an ideal solvent for the sulfur mustard. Some mustard evaporated and mingled with the clouds of smoke and flame. The wounded were pulled from the water and sent to medical facilities whose personnel were unaware of the mustard gas. Medical staff focused on personnel with blast or fire injuries and little attention was given to those merely covered with oil. Many injuries caused by prolonged exposure to low concentrations of mustard might have been reduced by bathing or a change of clothes.

    Within a day, the first symptoms of mustard poisoning had appeared in 628 patients and medical staff, with symptoms including blindness and chemical burns. This puzzling development was further complicated by the arrival of hundreds of Italian civilians also seeking treatment, who had been poisoned by a cloud of sulfur mustard vapor that had blown over the city when some of John Harvey's cargo exploded. As the medical crisis worsened, little information was available about what was causing these symptoms, as the U.S. military command wanted to keep the presence of chemical munitions secret from the Germans. Nearly all crewmen of John Harvey had been killed, and were unavailable to explain the cause of the "garlic-like" odor noted by rescue personnel.

    An additional cause of contamination with mustard is suggested by George Southern, the only survivor of the raid to have written about it. The huge explosion of John Harvey, possibly simultaneously with another ammunition ship, sent large amounts of oily water mixed with mustard into the air, which fell down like rain on men who were on deck at the time. This affected the crews of the Hunt-class destroyers HMS Zetland and HMS Bicester. Both ships were damaged by the force of the blast and had taken casualties. After moving the destroyers away from burning ships and towing the tanker La Drome away from the fires, the ships received orders to sail for Taranto. They threaded their way past burning wrecks, with the flotilla leader, Bicester having to follow Zetland as her navigation equipment was damaged. Some survivors were picked up from the water in the harbour entrance by Bicester. When dawn broke, it became clear that the magnetic and gyro compasses had acquired large errors, requiring a large course correction. Symptoms of mustard gas poisoning then began to appear. By the time they reached Taranto, none of Bicester's officers could see well enough to navigate the ship into harbour and assistance had to be sought from the shore.


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlormethine
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2020
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  7. 7.62 Man

    7.62 Man Well-Known Member

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    I have watched it. I was amazed at all the rebuilding done, it doesn't look like the same place.
     
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  8. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
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  9. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Well-Known Member

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    Pt 1
    Untitled-design-17-1-640x335.png
    Edward A. Carter, Jr. received the Medal of Honor for killing six soldiers and using the surviving two as a bodyshield

    Edward Allen Carter Junior was born on May 26th, 1916 in Los Angeles, California. Carter had a unique upbringing. His father was an African-American missionary, and his mother was an Indian from Calcutta.
    The family later moved to Shanghai, China, where Carter attended military school. Besides his native English and Hindi (India’s national language), he quickly picked up Mandarin and German, which he put to good use by running away from home.

    It wasn’t to spite his parents, however. It was because of the Shanghai Incident. Japan had been chipping away at China for decades, but in 1932, they escalated things with a bombing campaign against the city of Shanghai that lasted from January 28th to March 3rd.

    Enraged, Carter joined the Chinese Nationalist Army to fight the Japanese… without telling them that he was only 15. He did so well that he quickly rose through the ranks to become a lieutenant. The Chinese were delighted! At least until the following year when they found out that he was only 16.
    So they sent him back to his parents in Shanghai, where he went back to his military school. But Shanghai was no longer safe, so the family returned to the US.

    Carter, however, was no longer the same. He claimed that during his stint with the Nationalist Army, he was visited by a spirit who told him that he was destined to become a great warrior. The spirit also promised that he would never die in battle – it lied.

    Back in America, Carter attempted to fulfill his destiny by trying to enlist in the US Army. They wouldn’t have him, so in 1936, he made his way to Spain where trouble was brewing.

    The Spanish Civil War had begun. On the one side were the Republicans, loyal to the Second Spanish Republic, while on the other were the Nationalists loyal to General Francisco Franco.

    The XV International Brigade (also called the Abraham Lincoln Brigade) sided with the Republicans. Carter couldn’t resist joining them, of course, and ended up becoming a corporal. It didn’t last. By 1938, Franco was winning, forcing the Brigade out of Spain.

    Carter made his way back to the US and later joined the army in 1941. Sent to Fort Benning, Georgia, he faced another war even before America entered WWII. Though willing to die for their country, enlisted blacks who spoke up against the discrimination and violence they faced were punished with a dishonorable discharge.

    Wanting to stay in the army, Carter had no choice but to swallow his pride. So although his considerable experience got him promoted to staff sergeant, he had to keep his mouth shut when they gave him the exciting job of an army cook.

    Carter’s case was unusual, however, and it wasn’t just because he was black. On May 18, 1943, an intelligence officer at Camp Benning opened a file questioning Carter’s involvement with the Abraham Lincoln Brigade.
     
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  10. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Well-Known Member

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    Pt 2
    Edward A. Carter, Jr
    Since Spain was an ally of Nazi Germany, America had no love of Franco – but they loved communism even less. And since the Brigade espoused socialist ideals, that put them on America’s communist watch list. From that moment on, Carter’s every move was closely monitored as a possible hostile agent.

    Still, there was a war going on. Despite the government’s unflattering views of black people, necessity forced their hand – which was how Carter found himself in Europe in 1944.

    But attitudes don’t die easily. The army wasn’t happy about sending black people to the front lines, preferring to keep them in supporting roles such as cooks and cleaners. And Carter? The supplies department. As the death toll continued to rise, however, things had to change.

    Desperate for action, Carter took off his staff sergeant stripes and became a volunteer private in the 7th Army Provisional Infantry’s 1st Company. They put him in the 56th Armored Infantry Battalion of the 12thArmored Division, where things started to change.

    Carter’s experience showed itself in his poise and leadership. Company commander Captain Floyd Vanderhoff certainly noticed – which was why he reinstated Carter’s rank of Staff Sergeant and made him an infantry squad leader.

    General Patton also noticed, which was why Carter became one of his personal bodyguards.
    Pattonphoto-1-544x640.jpg
    For Patton had an arch-enemy, and it wasn’t Hitler – it was British General Sir Bernard Montgomery. Though fighting on the same side, Patton and Montgomery were in a deadly race to be the first into Germany.

    The 12th were also called the “Mystery Division” because they removed identifying insignias and were attached to different units. As part of the US 3rd Army, Carter crossed the Rhine River to the west of the German city of Mainz on March 22, 1945. Patton had won, but it wasn’t over yet.

    On March 23, Carter was in a tank making his way to the German town of Speyer when his convoy was attacked. A bazooka took out his tank, so he and three others jumped out – but there was a problem.

    They were in an open field with the tank as their only protection. Stay put, and another hit could shred the tank, ripping them apart with shrapnel. So they ran – two were killed, another was seriously hurt, leaving only Carter.

    Despite being hit five times, he continued running until he reached cover. Eight Germans rushed him, so he shot six, grabbed the other two, and continued running across the field till he reached his unit. The Germans refused to fire on their own, which was a good thing because Carter’s “shields” later provided valuable intel.

    Carter got the Distinguished Service Cross, but his alleged communist sympathies prevented him from re-enlisting. The government eventually apologized and showered him with awards, including the Medal of Honor in 1999. Unfortunately, Carter passed away in 1963 – meaning he never saw his medals.

    So Ed Carter bad some combat experence before US service.
    Spoke English, Chinese, Hindi, German and Spanish.
    First served in Chinese Nationalist Army 1931-1932 fighting Japanese.

    Spanish Republican XV International Brigade (also called the Abraham Lincoln Brigade) 1936-1938
    Fighting Franco's Spanish Nationalist's.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2020
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  11. Sierra 173

    Sierra 173 Active Member

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    One of the things that a lot of people fail to understand about the Japanese is that they treated their own people with the same mean spirit and disregard for human rights as they did every other group of people. I'm not trying to run some sort of dumb excuse for them. What I'm trying to do is explain that it was their society that produced some really mean soldiers who had no tolerance for things according to their Bushido Code.

    If you were of a lower social order, you could expect a person, any person of a higher social standing to beat you or possibly even put you to death for some perceived insult or failure of some kind. Prisoners of war were people who automatically became people of a lower social order because they had been defeated.

    The Asian mindset has a lot to do with "face and honor." If you lose face, like when you surrender, you become a non-person or a piece of property at best. You will be seen as not having any honor at all because you surrendered. In Viet Nam at the Battle of Hill 875 and at the Battle of Dak To Army Airfield, my unit hurt the North Vietnamese Army so bad that General Vo Nyugen Giap "lost face." At Dak To the NVA actually thought that they had us surrounded, cut off and beat to a pulp. They were wrong and we proved it. They lost both those fights to us and it cost Giap in more ways than I can even begin to explain here.

    Giap, in his anger, put out orders and wanted posters on any American paratrooper who wore a 173D Airborne shoulder patch. In the order he offered a bounty on all of our heads in the amount of $100,000 piasters per man and ordered that none of us were to be taken alive. We decided to return the favor as often as we could.

    This is the thing that many Americans don't understand about Asians. Much of what they do is done because of how they were raised and what they were taught to believe. It becomes second nature in them like it does in us to believe certain things as we grow up here.

    If you ever watch the movie "Shogun" where the main character is letting a pheasant age on the front porch. It begins to stink as it rots. A Japanese gardener who works for the main character's household disposes of the rotting bird. To appease the main character the gardener is beheaded before the main character finds out about the bird being thrown away. The Japanese in the story thought that they were doing something right by disposing of the bird and punishing the gardener who threw away the rotting/offensive bird. And that's exactly how they think and live.
     
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  12. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Well-Known Member

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    The Fighting Girlfriend T-34
    When Life Gives You Lemons… Buy a Tank!

    In 1943 the 38 year old Ukrainian woman Mariya Oktyabrskaya learned that her husband had been killed while fighting the Germans in World War II. A terrible loss for any spouse, Mariya grieved the loss of her husband in a way that is typically unusual for most widows. She sold all of her worldly possessions and used the proceeds to buy a T-34 battle tank. She agreed to donate the tank to the Red Army, but only under one condition; that she be the driver of the tank.

    After completing five months of tank training, rare considering most Soviet tankers were rushed into battle, Mariya and her tank “Fighting Girlfriend” joined the 26th Guards tank brigade in September of 1943. Mariya’s skills and bravery would be proven during her first action on October 21st, 1943. There she and her tank crewmen spearheaded an assault on a fortified German position, smashing through enemy lines while destroying several machine gun nests and artillery pieces. Throughout the next year she gained a reputation as a veteran tank driver and courageous fighter. Also a skilled mechanic as well as driver, when her tank was damaged she would often jump out into the open, exposing herself to enemy fire, so that she could conduct repairs and get back into the fight.

    On January 17th, 1944 while conducting her usual routine of sowing terror and destruction, Mariya’s tank took a hit from an anti-tank gun which disabled the vehicles tracks. Under heavy fire, and despite the protests of her crew, Mariya exited the tank to conduct repairs. Exposed to enemy fire she was struck in the head by a piece of shrapnel. She lingered in a coma for two months before passing away on March 15th, 1944.

    For her bravery and fierce conduct during World War II, Mariya was posthumously award the Heroine of the Soviet Union title on August 2nd, 1944.


    Maria-Oktyabrskaya.jpg

    A forgotten story about a great hero of the Soviet Union
    After her husband was killed fighting in 1941, Oktyabrskaya sold her possessions to donate a tank for the war effort, and requested that she be allowed to drive it. She donated and drove a T-34 medium tank, which she named "Fighting Girlfriend" ("Боевая подруга").

    Oktyabrskaya proved her ability and bravery in battle, and was promoted to the rank of sergeant. After she died of wounds from battle in 1944, she was posthumously made a Hero of the Soviet Union, the Soviet Union's highest honor for bravery during combat. She was the first of only two female tank drivers to be awarded the title.




    Mariya Oktyabrskaya And The Legend Of The ‘Fighting Girlfriend’
    https://amp.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/31fin6/badass_of_the_week_mariya_oktyabrskaya_when_life/


    https://allthatsinteresting.com/mariya-oktyabrskaya

    t-34-tank.jpg
    https://museumhack.com/the-fighting-girlfriend/
    Aleksandra Samusenko also bought her own t-34 tank.(photo below)
    images.jpeg-2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
  13. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Well-Known Member

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    Did you know they didnt allow US Troops to use vacuum tube radios?
    One the odd jobs of WW-2
    Crystal Grinder?

    US Army
    During World War II, many radios still required crystals to operate, usually galena. Crystal grinders would grind and calibrate these crystals to pick up specific frequencies.

    Personal radios were forbidden on the front lines, but crystal radio sets lacked external power sources, so they couldn't be detected by the enemy.

    For this reason, troops often improvised crystal radios from a variety of materials — including pencils and razor blades — in order to listen to music and news. These contraband radio sets were dubbed ''foxhole radios.''


    f0436a0897a3ea692eaf3d5bb78bcb78.jpg
    A soldier holds a foxhole radio — a crude crystal radio — at the Anzio beachhead in Italy in 1944. Soldiers were not allowed to use vacuum tube radios because they radiated radio waves that could be traced by the enemy. Instead, soldiers built crude crystal radios, which were safe. A common form, like the one in the photo, used as a detector a blue steel razor blade with a pencil lead pressed against its surface by a safety pin.
     
  14. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Well-Known Member

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    Odd jobs of WW-2
    Field Artillery Sound Recorder:

    These troops had the sickest beats. Until the development of radar, sound ranging was one of the most effective ways to locate enemy artillery, mortars and rockets. The process was first developed in World War I, and continued to be used in combat through the Korean War☆.

    From a forward operating post, a field artillery sound recorder would monitor an oscillograph and recorder connected to several microphones. When the sound of an enemy gun reached a microphone, the information would be recorded on sound film and the data from several microphones could be analyzed to locate the enemy gun.

    The technology is still in use today by many countries, which often use sound ranging in concert with radar.


    The US Marines included sound ranging units as standard parts of their defense battalions. These sound ranging units were active in the Marines both before and during World War II.
    The US Army also used sound locators. US Army sound ranging units took part in nearly all battles in which the army participated after November 1942. By the end of the war there were 25 observation battalions with 13,000 men.
    During the Okinawa campaign, the US Army used its sound ranging sets to provide effective counter battery fire. The Japanese tried to counter this effective counter-battery fire with the tactic of "shoot and scoot," which means shooting a small number of rounds and leaving the firing position before the counter-battery fire could arrive. While an effective tactic against counter-battery fire, this approach tends to reduce the effectiveness of artillery fire.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/boom-sounding-out-enemy/amp

    ☆: Korean War
    Sound ranging of artillery was done in Korea, but mainly was supplanted by counter-mortar radar and aircraft-based artillery observers. Since anti-radar countermeasures were limited at this time and the UN had air superiority throughout the war, these approaches were simpler and more accurate.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2020
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  15. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Well-Known Member

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    Wierd WW-2 job
    Horsebreaker
    Horsebreakers would train horses and mules so they could be issued to mounted units. They also trained them to carry packs and to be hitched to wagons and carts.

    Although they weren't used in World War II to the extent they were used in the First World War, troops still relied on horses and mules to cross terrain impassable to mechanized units.

    For example, the 5332nd Brigade, a long range patrol group created for service in the mountains of Burma, was largely self-sufficient due to the 3,000 mules assigned to it — all shipped from the United States.

    ba8bac895fe16124761288154d5e0163.jpg
    Army Cpl. Harley Peterson corrals horses belonging to an Army remount squad on New Caledonia, October 20, 1943.

    4EZIHG6JIFBHZMZ45IRB3K4G24.jpg
    ADVANCE FOR MONDAY JULY 11 - In this June 7, 2016 photo, Robert Elliott, 93, holds a scrapbook that contains clippings and photos from World War II at his home in Nain, Va. After joining the Army in 1942 at 19 years old, Robert Elliott didn’t follow the typical soldier’s path during World War II. Now 93, Elliott found himself not with a rifle, but instead breaking pack horses in the Australian outback. (Ginger Perry/The Winchester Star via AP) MANDATORY CREDIT

    https://www.armytimes.com/news/your...-looks-back-at-breaking-wild-horses-for-army/





    I actually had a neighbor that was a Vietnam era US Army horse trainer.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2020
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  16. hairbear1

    hairbear1 Well-Known Member

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    I had to c heck up on when the last cavalry charge was in WW2 as I thought it was a Russian attack on German lines early in Operation Barbarossa but it looks like the last charge by cavalry was by a Polish unit in the last days of the war in 1945 who were fighting along side the Russians knocked over a German artillery position.
    The last cavalry charge by US Forces was at the Bataan Peninsula in 1942.
     
  17. freefall

    freefall Well-Known Member

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    Kek. I had read the last mounted cavalry charge took place in Mexico about 1916.
     
  18. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Well-Known Member

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    I was interested in modern mfg of WW2 propritary ammunition.
    6.5 & 7.7 Japanese
    6.5 & 7.35, 8mm Breda Italian
    8x50R
    Mainly by Norma, Privi Partizan and Hornady.

    My latest kick was Rifle grenades and was on a sight detailing British made ammunition and came up with this bit.
    Captured Italian North Africa Arms shipped to India to fight Japanese?

    https://sites.google.com/site/britmilammo/6-5mm-7-35mm-8mm-italian
     
  19. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Well-Known Member

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    Soo what happened to the B-17's from December 7th?
    Known as Pacific Tramps.
    12 unarmed B-17s on their way to reinforce the Philippines arrived over Oahu to find Pearl Harbor and Hickam Field under attack.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/weaponsandwarfare.com/2016/05/10/clash-of-titans/amp/

    https://www.historynet.com/pacific-tramps.htm
    b17pic2.jpg
    After surviving the Pearl Harbor attack, B-17E 41-2433 gets some payback against a Kawanishi H6K4 on October 23, 1942

    https://pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/b-17/41-2433.html
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
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  20. manta

    manta Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Royal Ulster Rifles in France. royalulsterbattlehonors-full.jpg wwiini-royal-ulster-rifles-in-normandy.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
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